Talk:List of sportspeople who competed for more than one nation

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Inclusion[edit]

Brigt Rykkje[edit]

He originally competed for the Netherlands, then for Norway and now for the Netherlands again. I would say that fits under "moved to compete for another country". The "Players who could have chosen to represent more than one country due to their parentage" clause is for people who theoretically "adhered" to several nations, then chose one of them without having represented another. Punkmorten 11:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that Rykkje didn't make a nationality transfer: he already had Norwegian nationality from birth. He simply chose between his Dutch nationality and his Norwegian nationality. AecisBravado 12:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Childhood[edit]

Someone else re-added Jelena Dokic, I re-added Vanessa Atkinson and I already added Tatiana Golovin and Martina Hingis. In my opinion these names should be in this list as they do not match the childhood rule in the examples on top of the page.

Players who moved to the country they represented in childhood. Frequently, the home countries of such players are former colonies of their future countries (such as Patrick Vieira, born in Senegal but moved to France in childhood). Another example of such a player was Marcel Desailly, a Ghana-born player who was adopted in childhood by a French diplomat and raised in France.

I indeed agree that people who moved abroad from former colonies in their childhood are not wanted in this list, like the players named in the example. But Yugoslavia-Australia, England-Netherlands, Russia-France and Czechoslovakia-Switzerland are in my opinion totally different. In this case the sporters did not change nationalities to a former colony, but to a totally different nation that has nothing to do with the nation they were born in and thus qualify for this list. SportsAddicted | discuss 06:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the move of these players is not a nationality transfer, but rather common migration. Perhaps they should be added to List of sportspeople with dual nationality, a parent of the List of football players with dual nationality. If the consensus is to include emigrants in this list, however, Richard Krajicek, Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski should not be omitted. AecisBravado 19:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The way I see it Podolski and Klose should be part of the list, while Krajicek should not as he is born in the Netherlands and represented that country. I do see your point, and maybe we should create such a list for dual or multiple nationalities as well. SportsAddicted | discuss 22:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I copied the criteria directly from List of nationality transfers in football, for consistency. They were added there by Darwinek, but I can't trace what those criteria are based on and where they have been discussed. I believe that the regular contributors to List of nationality transfers in football should be notified of any discussion on changing the criteria, as well as well as the Wikipedia:WikiProject Sports and the Wikipedia:WikiProject Football. AecisBravado 15:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Figure skating by country[edit]

A problem I have with sorting figure skating moves by country is that some skaters have moved more than once. Therefore, I think it makes sense to have all the skater's changes in order that they happened. Putting it in order by nation jumbles it up and makes it confusing to follow where skaters actually started from and where they ended up. Kolindigo 17:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is a way to show that, as I have done on List of nationality transfers in chess. If it's the first transfer, you put one country in the left column and the others in the right, with the other countries in chronological order from top to bottom. With the second transfer, you put two countries in the left column and the others in the right column. The chess players with multiple nationality transfers are Erich Eliskases, Igor Vasilyevich Ivanov, Savielly Tartakower and Mark Bluvshtein. It's not the perfect solution, but it's better than nothing. AecisBravado 19:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Looks a little awkward. How about I put numbers next to it, like (1) for first move and (2) for second? Kolindigo 01:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Even better. I'll see if I can think of a better way. AecisBravado 01:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are Israel and Turkey European or Asian?[edit]

There is some discussion at the List of nationality transfers in chess about Israel and Turkey, that might extend to other lists of nationality transfers. Should they be sorted under Europe or under Asia? I believe they should be sorted under Europe, because both the Israel chess Federation and the Türkiye Satran Federasyonu are members of the European Chess Union. In just about every other sport I can imagine, Israel and Turkey have joined the relevant European confederation as well, instead of the Asian confederation. Any thoughts on this? AecisBravado 22:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can't speak for any other sport, but in figure skating as well, Israeli and Turkish skaters compete at the European Championships and not the Four Continents (i.e., everyone but Europe) Championships. If the sport treats the countries as European, I don't see why a list of transfers shouldn't as well. Kolindigo 01:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, in sports Israel and Turkey are commonly accepted as European countries. Maybe in some sports they are not, but in Chess they belong to the European Chess Union and they do the same in at least most other sports. SportsAddicted | discuss 06:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Turkey being listed as Europe as it qualifies as both Europe and Asia but surely Israel should be listed as Asia (even though they usually compete in European sporting federations). Zarcadia (talk) 15:59, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Surely what? I agree with following the geographic zones of the person's primary sport (but who cares about the zones?).
Beside Turkey and Israel, and Malta and Cyprus, as members of sporting Europe,
  • at the card table, bridge Europe includes Lebanon and Armenia; Azerbaijan does not compete.
  • Olympic Europe includes Armenia and Azerbaijan, not Lebanon.
--P64 (talk) 14:57, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion[edit]

There has been some discussion on the second criterion for this list ("Players who moved to the country they represented in childhood"), the key question being whether people like Jelena Dokic, Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski meet the criterion or not. The suggestion was made to limit this criterion to former colonies. However, the discussion is still ongoing, and at the moment the criterion still stands. I therefore suggest removing Dokic, Klose, Podolski and others from the list for now, but keeping track of them at User:Aecis/Nationality transfers. When the discussion has reached a conclusion, we can either put them back in, or add them to a new article List of sportspeople with dual nationality. Any thoughts? AecisBravado 13:28, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine with me. SportsAddicted | discuss 16:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of sportspeople with dual nationality[edit]

I have created a List of sportspeople with dual nationality. The intro was copypasted from List of football players with dual nationality, the layout is based on this article. Any feedback would be welcome. The list would be for children of mixed-nationality marriages, for children of expats who have attained the nationality of the country their parents moved to, and for people who moved to another country at a young age. Any thoughts or suggestions? AecisBravado 12:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nadia Comaneci[edit]

I have removed Nadia Comaneci from the list. She is a Romanian athlete, who defected to the US long after her retirement as a gymnast. While her past as a gymnast certainly played a role in the coverage of the defection, it had no effect on her sports career. She was not a sportsperson anymore when she defected, and it was not a nationality transfer in sport. AecisBravado 13:14, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

She's back. Did she migrate as a coach or other official?--P64 (talk) 15:25, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Andreas Zuber and Robert Doornbos[edit]

I haven't found any reference about their change of nationality. --necronudist 21:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Andreas Zuber, see for instance:
I'll see if I can find the proper references for Robert Doornbos later today. But he was listed on the result list of the Friday trainings with a Monegasque flag right up to the middle of this season. AecisBrievenbus 21:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've found at least one reference for Robert Doornbos. The FIA qualifying classification for Robert Doornbos' debut GP, Germany 2005, lists him as "Robert Doornbos (MON)" ([1], position 17). AecisBrievenbus 00:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sortable tables[edit]

After a recent mishap with me sorting a few tables alphabetically instead of by to nation, I want to suggest that we consider the use of the class "wikitable sortable", because this allows the user to then select if they want to sort by athlete name, or see all the athletes leaving a particular country or going to a particular country. An nice example would be Equestrianism. The new table would look like this:

Name of athlete From nation To nation
Jos Lansink  Netherlands  Belgium
Samantha McIntosh  United Kingdom  Bulgaria
Franke Sloothaak  Netherlands  Germany
Meredith Michaels-Beerbaum  United Kingdom  Germany
Jessica Kürten  United Kingdom  Ireland
Sven Rothenberger  Germany  Netherlands
Susan de Kleine  Netherlands  Netherlands Antilles
Eddy Stibbe  Netherlands  Netherlands Antilles
Jean-Claude Vangeenberghe  Belgium  Ukraine

Sure, the colours look a little different, but that's not too serious (it's fairly standard at least). Lemme know if anyone else thinks it's a good idea I can convert it I guess? Deon Steyn 07:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Never saw that feature, it looks pretty neat to me actually. The only thing I don't like, but that's hard to solve is that is sorts the names by given name instead of surname. SportsAddicted | discuss 08:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Only bumped into it recently myself. I see also, that we don't need to sacrifice the current colours, by just using class="sortable", i.e. we don't need to use the wikitable format/colours. I think this makes it a no-brainer really. We don't lose/change anything, but we add sortability. Deon Steyn 08:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, this simply improves the article. SportsAddicted | discuss 10:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Cool, I have changed it and it seems to work with the exception of Yugoslavia for some unknown reason, but all in all I think it only adds value. Deon Steyn 11:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I bumped into it at WP:OP a few months ago, but to my shame I must admit that the thought never occurred to me that the feature could be used for this list as well. An excellent idea, which I definitely retroactively endorse :) AecisBrievenbus 12:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
One minor problem though: the tables sort by first name of the athlete, not by last name. I'm afraid this doesn't add to the clarity of that particular column. Is there a way to fix this? AecisBrievenbus 12:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Another editor also pointed this out and I couldn't find a solution (perhaps not sorting that column) with the quick check I did of this feature (on Help:Sorting). It still makes the feature useful for the remaining columns? Deon Steyn 12:56, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The template {{sortname}} allows sorting by surname in columns while rendering first name followed by last name. I have edited the above table to illustrate,.. It requires editors to change each name entry in the first column of each table - tedious but effective. Newwhist (talk) 00:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Name of athlete From nation To nation
Jos Lansink  Netherlands  Belgium
Samantha McIntosh  United Kingdom  Bulgaria
Franke Sloothaak  Netherlands  Germany
Meredith Michaels-Beerbaum  United Kingdom  Germany
Jessica Kürten  United Kingdom  Ireland
Sven Rothenberger  Germany  Netherlands
Susan de Kleine  Netherlands  Netherlands Antilles
Eddy Stibbe  Netherlands  Netherlands Antilles
Jean-Claude Vangeenberghe  Belgium  Ukraine

Venson Hamilton[edit]

He is a basketball player born in the USA and nowadays playing in Spain. He is married to a spanish woman, but he hasn't earn Spanish nationality, beacuse he hasn't ask for it yet. He has no spanish passport neither other only-spaniards ID. He plays as an spaniard in the domestic league because some loophole in the league and federation rules, but he isn't elegible for playing at the Spanish National Basketball Team.

I'm removing him from the list

Eusébio[edit]

Why is Eusébio included in the list? When he was a player Mozambique was not a country, he didn't choose to play for Portugal over Mozambique, it was is only option. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.181.62.243 (talk) 19:08, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

National production and representation[edit]

This list seems to cover anyone who represents a country different from where s/he learned the sport as a resident. Probably early sporting residence is the main point; we suppose that that country produced the sporting competitor. Early representation of the "from nation" is irrelevant.

And later representation in international competition as a player is crucial. Some sports recognize team members who do not play (captain, coach, etc) but they don't count here. The golf section waits for some international migrant to compete in one of the few events with national representation, such as the US Ryder Cup team.

Right? --P64 (talk) 15:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dates[edit]

I have added some dates to section Bridge and added the team Zimmermann move to Monaco. They established Monaco residence 2010 (December?); the listed date 2012 refers to their earliest prospective play for Monaco.

Perhaps one column to list a single date YYYY will be useful. Perhaps that should be the year of the first known play, training, tryout, etc, with/for/as a representative of the "To nation" (2012 expected for team Zimmermann). Perhaps the year of official migration, or termination of eligibility to represent the "From nation" (2010 for team Zimmermann), generally more difficult to research. If a single column is added, between the From and To columns is probably a good location. --P64 (talk) 23:50, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Sportspeople who were born abroad or of foreign descent.[edit]

Is it the original intent of the article for sportspeople who played for two or more national teams? Such as Diego Costa, who previously played for Spain and later played for Spain and not foreign born sportspeople who could have represented their country of birth but represented the country they migrated in?

Calling attention to Bronze2018. Sorry I was the I.P. address who made that edit. Forgot to login.--Hariboneagle927 (talk) 15:59, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, some clarification please. The ice hockey list seems to make very little sense, most of the players were not good enough to represent their birth country and moved on to represent a country where they ended up playing professionally. Most of the French and Italian rosters from the 1992 Olympics were born in Canada, but none of them were ever considered to represent Canada, do they qualify for this list?18abruce (talk) 15:36, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Modified it heavily, but am unsure of players who played in Canada Cup events...those did not require or change international eligibility (Bryan Trottier, Curt Fraser, and Tony Esposito all played for the USA, but all of them were still eligible to play for Canada in the world championships). Peter Stastny is included, but he only represented Canada in the Canada Cup, so maybe he shouldn't be, I don't know.18abruce (talk) 16:36, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

auto racing[edit]

why is it included? Do any races compete for their country, I follow the sport but not in any depth. This appears to be a list of professionals who have changed citizenship at some point.18abruce (talk) 14:33, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I was not the one who included this. It appears these drivers have all played in more than two A1 Grand Prix teams, I don't know if A1 Teams are the same as a national team so I left this section alone. Feel free to empty the section.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 14:43, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the response, I am reasonable certain that nationality is irrelevant in auto racing but I will check a couple more places to be sure.18abruce (talk) 14:58, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In A1 Grand Prix only one racer competed for more than one country, and that was as a fill in because of a crash.18abruce (talk) 16:38, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 August 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move unopposed (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 06:19, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

List of nationality transfers in sport → Sportspeople who competed for more than one country – This is to discourage further edits that goes against the criteria set in the lead. IPs continue to add athletes to the list when in reality they just happen to be born in another country than the one the only competed for. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 05:21, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Amine Van de Putte (ice hockey)[edit]

Played with the Belgian national team, and also has played for Tunisia. However the games for Tunisia are either as a club team, or against club teams. To play in these games the rules for national team representation were not in force so I do not believe they count, but I welcome other opinions (if they exist).18abruce (talk) 15:05, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

tennis[edit]

there is a large volumn of tennis players added and I am trying to figure out; in what way did they represent their country? It appears (and maybe I am wrong) that it is more a matter of funding and/or taxes than representation but maybe someone could explain this better.18abruce (talk) 19:02, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Baseball[edit]

@‎Sportsfan 1234 Otto Lopez has Template:Dominican Republic roster 2019 WBSC Premier12 linked. Pelmeen10 (talk) 17:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Post-expand include size limit[edit]

It looks as though this article has hit the post-expand include size limit: Note that some of the templates towards the end of the article are displayed as "Template:<name>" rather than displaying the template contents. I've asked at WP:VPT for a suitable solution. DH85868993 (talk) 11:46, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Following this edit, the article no longer exceeds the post-expand include size limit and all the templates are now displaying properly. DH85868993 (talk) 23:12, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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