Talk:Loudon Wainwright III/Archives/2016

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Biography section faux pas

"[Loudon Wainwright] is a direct descendant of Peter Stuyvesant"

What other kind of descendants are there? Does the writer mean "in the male line"? In that case he should explain the change of name. Or does he mean without supervening adoptions? Then he should say so.

The use of the term "direct descendant" seems a wee bit breathless and hyper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.171.24 (talk) 15:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

It's a quote from the source; however, I agree that we could do without the "direct". Mangoe (talk) 15:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not a faux pas - indirect descendants also exist. For example, I could say I'm indirectly related to Florence Nightingale as she was my great great great uncle's niece. Thus, I'm not directly related to her, but the close familial connection makes me an indirect descendant.

On that basis, plus the fact that I believe we should always stick with the source if possible, I'm reverting the edit. David T Tokyo (talk) 17:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

1. Dutch surnames did change, sometimes drastically, though I know nothing about the evolution of the Stuyvesant surname. The Dutch practiced the patronymic naming system until they bumped up against the English system of inherited duplicate-ish surnames, after England captured New Netherlands in 1664.

From the Peter Stuyvesant article: "The last acknowledged direct descendant of Pieter Stuyvesant to bear his surname was Augustus van Horne Stuyvesant, Jr., who died a bachelor in 1953 at the age of 83 in his mansion at 2 East 79th Street. Rutherford Stuyvesant, the 19th century New York developer, and his descendants are also descended from Pieter Stuyvesant, however Rutherford Stuyvesant's name was changed from Stuyvesant Rutherford in 1863 to satisfy the terms of the 1847 will of Peter Gerard Stuyvesant." Additionally, it was not unusual through North American history for brothers to adopt different versions of their family surname in parallel [examples from my own family: Frantz & France; Parrot & Parrett & Paret; Ewert & Evert & Everett; Grunschelski & Grand].

2. Although it would appear that Peter Stuyvesant no longer has direct descendants that share his surname, he may have many directs that share an altered surname and he likely has indirect descendants, too. In other words, he could have many 1000s of descendants. Unless Wainwright has some kind of special interest in Peter Stuyvesant (he wrote a scholarly biography; he's the Director of some kind of "Stuyvesant Foundation", he's the inheritor of the Stuyvesant zillions), I really cannot see how his decendancy is notable in the least. If the mere fact that he may be descended from the man after so many generations is notable, then we should start editing right away, adding that fact to all the other progeny that may be entered into WP articles. As it is, this is just name-dropping. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 04:42, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Nobody has offered a reason to keep the supposed ancestor reference, so I deleted that part about Pieter Stuyvesant because of the arguments made above. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 06:17, 22 December 2016 (UTC)