Talk:MS Thorbjørn

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MS Thorbjørn (copied from User talk:Toresbe)[edit]

Hei. Tok vekk endringene dine i artikkelen om MS Thorbjørn, igjen. Det er ikke for å være vanskelig, men jeg vil at artikkelen skal være objektiv og kun inneholde fakta. Hvor har du f.eks. opplysningene om at de på båten var "mostly people who were located in the administrative building near the dock" fra?

Jeg er klar over at MS Thorbjørns rolle er et ømtårlig tema. Bare husk at det er det også for de som risikerte livet for å redde dere der ute. Det inkluderer de frivillige som for lengst burde ha fått medalje for edel dåd og det inkluderer de første tjenestemennene som måtte ta seg i land med åpne småbåter. De hadde heller ikke full oversikt over situasjonen og de ventet faktisk å bli skutt etter av 3-5 terrorister med automatvåpen.

Det er ikke rederlig å kritisere politiet for å bruke for lang tid, samtidig som man unnlater å nevne MS Thorbjørn. Hadde MS Thorbjørn vært tilgjengelig for politiet, ville de to første tjenestemennene som ankom Utøykaia ca. 17:50, kunne tatt seg relativt trygt over til Utøya. I beste fall kunne ABB da vært pågrepet allerede når han selv ringte for å overgi seg ca. kl 18:00.

Alternativt kunne de ventet noen minutter på Beredskapstroppen som med sine pansrede kjøretøy kunne kjørt rett ombord i MS Thorbjørn. De ville da vært godt beskyttet bak den solide baugporten og vært fremme ca. 16 minutter tidligere. Det er fakta som ikke kan utelates om man ønsker å gjøre en objektiv og rederlig evaluering.

Husk at det finnes en diskusjonsside til artikkelen. Benytt denne om du mener artikkelen ikke er objektiv slik den er nå, og sørg for å sjekke faktaene dine om du gjør endringer. Erlbaeko (talk) 10:51, 23 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Thanks for writing, although I do believe this discussion does belong in the article discussion page. I'll reply in English, and also copy this discussion there. I'd appreciate it if we could also continue it there.

The source for the information is based on the fact that the administrative building is the only building next to the dock and as the article states, six of the nine people aboard the ship were indeed leaders. They worked in the administrative building. Other sources corroborate this.

If this is the specific aspect of the edit with which you have an issue, then I suggest you in the future revert only that part, rather than the entire edit.

Further speculation about the actions of either the police or the ferry at a point where there are very few facts known to the public isn't really very constructive. Hindsight is cheap. Besides, any discussion of this would also necessarily include political considerations. I can't contribute with what would be called OR, of course. What you consider objective truths are nothing but your personal speculations. I highly doubt you have a grasp of the specifics of what happened, the terrain of the island, and I doubt you have a sufficient command of combat strategy to make enlightened comments that can be accepted by anyone as "objective fact" as you claim.

I believe that the text is NPOV - or at least, it adds no NPOV questions to the original paragraph. It's simply an improvement in quality. And I would very much appreciate it if you refrained in the future from using the fact that I was there during the event to discredit my edits, without pointing out specific flaws in my edit style. toresbe (talk) 11:53, 23 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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