Talk:Man o' War Cove

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Wrong title?[edit]

In my opinion the article title is wrong because Man O'War Bay does not exist. I've had a close look at the 1:50000 and 1:25000 UK Ordnance Survey maps and there is no Man O'War Bay marked, the bay is St Oswald's Bay. I've also been through the Dorset websites, and no Man O'War Bay. The cove is certainly Man O'War Cove so the title should be Man O'War Cove (Dorset) because I expect some others exist in the world. I have no idea how to do the change- Adrian Pingstone (talk) 19:03, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually Man O'War Cove isn't marked on the OS maps either, although I do have a recollection from somewhere that the rocks in the sea across the mouth of the cove are called Man O'War Rocks..... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 01:23, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree that the existing name is poor:

Google Maps: Man O'War Beach
OS maps: the rocks across the cove: The Man o' War
OS maps online:
- rocks: The Man o' War
- cove: Man o' War Cove
OpenStreetMap:
- beach: Man Of War
- cove: Man O' War
WikiMapia:
- Man o'War Beach
- Man o'War Cove

I hope I have accuractely transcribed all the capitalisation and (non-)spacing.

Variety! But a point of agreement seems to be the absence of "bay".

I propose "Man o' War Cove" (lower-case "o'"; space separator before "War"; and "Cove"), and to do the change in a couple of weeks (by mid July 2019).

Feline Hymnic (talk) 09:59, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that there should be an apostrophe of omission in the title ("Man o' ..." rather than "Man of ..."), though am not convinced that Man o' War Bay is wrong. In the Ward Lock Red Guide Dorset Coast (published 1979), there is mention of Man o' War Bay - describing a route along the coast, it says, "then come the charming St. Oswald Bay and Man o' War Bay, where the bathing is excellent". PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:44, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Our context is whittling down candidate titles towards the most appropriate title for this article. Some place names are very straightforward, with a single "right answer". But some are more ambiguous; for instance "Newcastle upon Tyne" is correctly unhyphenated, but there are nevertheless hyphenated examples. Meanwhile "Dorchester on Thames" seems split on hyphenated/unhyphenated. Our article here has lots of possibilities (including the additional looseness of what is there: beach; cove; offshore rocks; wider bay). So I think we might usefully imagine a grey-scale and placing our candidate names along it, with official maps guding candidate names towards the favourable end of that scale. I get the feeling that the current name "Man of War Bay" would end up as one of the less favourable names. Our task is to choose which name seems most favourable. We can always say "Name1 (also known as Name2)...". Another consideration is that these Jurassic Coast articles try to have a little geology or geomorphology; rarely are such articles about beach-holidays; for that reason I would put "...Beach" names as less favourable. Does that help us? Feline Hymnic (talk) 11:18, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That seems reasonable, and probably pushes us toward Man o' War Cove. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 08:40, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've highlighted the pariochialism going on now in a professional context but contextualising the article. I do hope this fixes it. One does have to look even at the World Heritage Jurassic Coast in a broader, more global lens in a global encyclopedia, this is not a book about fine possible distinctions as if they are gospel; a physical feature is a feature; a spade is a shovel as great speaker Boothroyd insisted on her biographic interview, I'm inclined to agree wholeheartedly. If something is a bay/cove that can be mentioned as WP:BOLD and WP:REDIRECT which is already in place for this article but to start insisting on them being something separate is to be a WP:BIAS in semantics which is not at all appropriate, especially as to what real ends does that serve? - Adam37 Talk 11:06, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies; I let this slide. (How I wish WP had a reminder/alarm-clock system!). So... are we agreed on "Man o' War Cove"? Feline Hymnic (talk) 17:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I did the rename earlier today. Feline Hymnic (talk) 19:52, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I can't get too excited about it, but as a local since 1974, geologist and someone interested in place names I've always known it as Man o' War Bay (and the first rock as the Man o' War). I don't believe Google Maps, WikiMapia and Open Street Map are reliable guides; the OS may be, but isn't always infallible