Talk:Mercy seat

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Disambiguation[edit]

MastersClayPot (talk · contribs) has removed the disambiguation at the head of the article to the song The Mercy Seat and has messaged me about it. Does anyone else think we should follow general practice and restore it? --Gwern (contribs) 00:28 17 November 2006 (GMT)

I created and linked Mercy seat (disambiguation). The Merciful 15:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
changed the language to be more emphatic as it relates to the efficacy of the death of Christ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.242.102.226 (talk) 03:46, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Mercy seat"[edit]

Is this a common nomenclature in Christianity? No one would have sat on the Ark (!) so why translate kapporet as anything other than a cover or lid? The name kapporet implies atonement, not mercy. They're different concepts - mercy requires no effort from the beneficiary, merely the granter, while atonement is almost the opposite. --Dweller 11:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC) I personally believe that the article should be named Kapporet as the original hebrew word. Additionally if one looks in Rashi the most basic of all jewish commentaries on the bible this is the quote from Shemos perek chaf hei , possuk chaf zayim "כסוי על הארון" which means "a cover on the box" 195.60.233.242 (talk) 11:12, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

173.3.196.11 (talk) 06:06, 24 April 2019 (UTC) just wondering why the original ambiguous and encompassing Hebrew term was changed to new christian one[reply]

from what i can gather the term comes from english translators following the lead of Luther's translation of "hilasterion" as Gnadenstuhl. this page is a mess, though. 19 March 2020

His[edit]

I've changed "His" in reference to Jesus Christ to "his" as per the main article on him. This removes a somewhat Christian slant to the article and in my mind restores a more NPOV. I feel this is in line with "God" being spelled out on Wikipedia not as "G-d" as in the tradition of many Jewish people and also the lack of "pbuh" after the mention of the Prophet Mohammed's name.

I have of course left the "His" in the quotation alone.

Zakaleth 00:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other covers[edit]

I'd like to mention that there is also a Polish version of Nick Cave's "Mercy Seat" by Kazik Staszewski titled "Krzesło Łaski". It was published on "Melodie Kurta Weill'a i coś ponadto" album. My English isn't good enough to edit this article. --83.142.122.151 9 August 2007

RE: Septuagint[edit]

The article says:

The phrase mercy seat is not a translation of the Hebrew term kapporeth, which appears in its place in the Masoretic text, nor of the Greek term hilasterion, which takes the same place in the Septuagint, but instead is the translation by William Tyndale of the German term gnadenstuhl, from the same narrative position in Martin Luther's translation of the Bible into German; gnadenstuhl literally means seat of grace, in the sense of location of grace.

This sounds as if the Septuagint was translated by William Tyndale. It was not. The Septuagint may in fact be older than the Hebrew version of Exodus. Maimonides refers to using and referencing Targums in his Guide for the Perplexed chapter 48, which seems to indicate that he did not have a more authorative text to reference.

Also commentators sometimes support the Septuagint version of how many years were spent in Slavery in Egypt by assuming part of the 430 year mentioned was also meant to include time spent in Canaan.

RRQ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.99.246.228 (talk) 16:20, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What does it look like?[edit]

It is described in the article as an "atonement piece", described as being made of gold and some measurements are given, but is there no physical description of it? what shape does it have? what IS it? Just a decorative made for having blood sprinkled on it? Is it actually shaped like a seat or throne?

Mark Carouthers' song "Mercy Seat"[edit]

The section "Cultural References" mentions a song called "Mercy Seat" performed by Karen Wheaton on her 1997 album "I'm Still Here". Here is some background:

The same song titled "The Mercy Seat" was initially released on Vicky Yohe's (http://www.vickiyohe.org/) 1992 debut album "Everlasting Love". Lyrics start with "In the darkness where everything is unknown, I face the power of sin on my own...". The Song was written by Steve Richardson, Mark Carouthers (http://markcarouthers.com/) and Jeff Harpole (see http://www.amazon.com/Mercy-Seat-Steve-Richardson/dp/B003UMBPKO). It became well-known and was sung among churches in many countries because it was performed repeatedly during the early stage of the widely-reported "Brownsville Revival" (see http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/print.php?Article_ID=24631). -- Toa7d6 (talk) 17:03, 7 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

moved from refs sectin[edit]

the following were moved from the main page, were in the refs section but not pointing to any one bit. possible refs for later - Aaron Brenneman (talk) 09:51, 3 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Butler, Trent. Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary. 2003.- articles on "Ark of the Covenant.", "Day of Atonement.", "High Priest.", "Holy of Holies.", and "Mercy Seat."
Dutch, Steve. "Legacy of the Ancient World". Steven Dutch, Natural and Applied Sciences. 21 September 1999. Accessed 10 November 2006.
Henry, Matthew. Commentary on the Whole Bible Volume I (Genesis to Deuteronomy). Printed 1706-1721. Christian Classic Ethereal Library. Accessed 12 November 2006.
Holy Bible, The. King James Version. Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989.
Jordan, David. "Ancient Metallurgy". Jordan: Ancient Metallurgy. 26 September 2006. David K. Jordan: Professor Emeritus of Anthropology, UCSD. Accessed 10 November 2006.
Noblit, Jeff. "Reformation Has Come, Part XII." First Baptist Church, Muscle Shoals, AL. Accessed 24 September 2006.

External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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"God did appear"[edit]

shouldn't this be more neutral, like "where god was said to appear" ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.249.133.224 (talk) 20:14, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Redundancies abound![edit]

There is so much redundancy in this article put under subheadings of different parts of religious organizations. The redundancies contain information regarding the etymology of the words used in the original paragraphs of this article. I have no time right now, but when I do I hope to come back and shorten this article significantly by removing these redundancies and putting the information that is important in proper paragraphs. All of these headings are irrelevant. If someone would like to take up this project ahead of me, please do. Also, please remember that this article is about the mercy seat. Additional information about the temple, the Holy of Holies, and the practices of the people of Israel is not relevant in this article. It is wonderful information that I, as a devoted Christian, believe to be among the most important information a person can know. However, if we want to include it in Wikipedia then it needs to be within its own article that allows for a broader explanation. God bless and happy editing. MarydaleEd (talk) 17:51, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]