Talk:Meretz-Yachad/archive

Merge - Meretz

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

As to 07.14.05, the convention of Yachad decided that the party will be called from now on "Meretz - Yachad", I recommend to merge the two articles. Ches88 19:43, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

yes, i agree that they should be merged ... why has no-one else responded?

I'm not sure they should be merged, as officially it's a new political entity, but definitely the name should be changed to Meretz-Yachad to reflect the current name of the party.--Nitsansh 17:01, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Though Yachad-Meretz is a new political entity, there is no significant change in Ideology or members except for the Addition of Yossi Beilin and his followers. It is a technical, rather than a fundamental, shift. Therefore, the two essays should be merged under Meretz-Yachad, with the details of the Yachad party as a footnote in the history of Meretz (the name had to be changed back because voters didn't associate the name Yachad with the left wing movement) AshcroftIleum 17:08, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I am planning on merging Meretz into this article soon, unless anyone has a good reason why not to? Tal :) 07:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I see there is no apparent opposition to the merge but rather a strong support for it. Thus, I will begin the merge very soon unless someone disagrees. If so, tell me nowto avoid an edit conflict, otherwise I consider the proposed merge as a consensus based decision and will start it very soon without further discussion. Tal :) 10:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dovish?

It is not clear from the article if the description "dovish" is an official description of the party or POV. Sounds to me like a loaded statement. Please clarify. 68.165.17.108 05:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think this is necessarily the best word, as it mightn't make much sense to someone unfamiliar with the terminiology of Israeli political discourse (in English!). Perhaps some clearer rephrasing could be found (takes a moderate position on peace/negotiations with the Palestinians, something like that)? I appreciate it may be hard to find an alternative that keeps everybody happy in terms of NPOV.Palmiro | Talk 15:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I think we need an article to define the term dovish and another one for the opposite term hawkish in the context of Israeli politics. The current page dovish redirects to pacifist, which is not what this term means in Israeli terminology.

I see no problem of NPOV here as its clear that Meretz-Yachad is the most extreme Jewish-dominated party on the dovish side of the Israeli political scale.--Nitsansh 16:58, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Principles vs. Issues

I don't really think that the devision between "principles" and "issues" is accurate. Why are "human rights" a principle and "gay rights" an issue? Aren't "gay rights" part of human rights anyhow? Why is the strive for peace and a two state solution a "principle" and the strive for social justice an "issue"?

(I changed the title from "secondary issues" to "other issues" since the "issues" aren't secondary compared with the principles, and in fact some of these "issues" where in the center of Meretz's last election campaign while some of the "principles" played a minor role in the campaign.)

So, wouldn't it be better to do away with the whole "issue"-"principle" distinction all together and list them all under the same category? --tal :) 18:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

As no one responded to my suggestion I guess there is no opposition and I will remove this distinction soon. If anybody disagrees please let me know now to avoid an edit conflict. Tal :) 10:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I reconstructed the entire Ideology section and I think its much better orginized and more detailed now. Any comments or suggestions? Tal :) 16:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Meretz' Ideology

I believe Progressivism is a term relevant to politics in the first two decades of the twentieth century in the U.S.

Meretz's ideology, however, is derived from European political thought and today can be considered Social democratic in the European political sense of the word.

Thus, the term "Progressivism" is inaccurate and doesn't fit the party's ideology. Tal :) 14:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Name spelling: why is it מרצ and not מרץ?

--212.199.110.1 (talk) 17:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Because meretz is an acronym, and it is not uncommon to spell acronyms with the last letter not in its last-in-word form. Rami R 18:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I guessed as much - what is it an acronym for - I couldn't find an explanation on the Hebrew article. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:15, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe that it is an acronym for Mapam (מפ"ם) and ratz (ר"צ). Rami R 18:32, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I thought it might be that, but given that the party was a merger of Ratz, Mapam and Shinui, I wonder why was the latter ignored in the party's name. пﮟოьεԻ 57 19:07, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Researching this (asking my brother and googling), it seems that Meretz's 1992 campaign slogan was "ממשלה עם מרצ, הכוח לעשות את השינוי" ("A government with vigor [Meretz], the strength to make the change [Shinui]"). Rami R 19:56, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Now either unlock the article to let me amend it, or do it yourselves. --212.199.110.1 (talk) 13:23, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

What do you want amended? пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I want the History section to begin like this: (By the way, why is Mapam's name -- also an acronym -- written with the word-final letterform? To say, its logo has the word-medial letterform instead.)

History

Meretz was formed in 1992 prior to the elections by an alliance of three left-wing parties; Ratz, Mapam and Shinui, and was initially led by Ratz's chairwoman and long-time Knesset member Shulamit Aloni. The name "Meretz" (מרצ) was chosen as an acronym for Mapam (מפ"ם) and Ratz (רצ), themselves being acronyms; this explains the "unconventional" spelling of the party name with the medial form of the letter tzade in word-final position. The third party of the alliance wasn't reflected in its name, but was instead mentioned in the campain slogan that Meretz used: "ממשלה עם מרצ, הכוח לעשות את השינוי" (A government with vigor, the strength to make the change). Its first electoral test was a success, with the party winning twelve seats, making it the third largest in the Knesset. Meretz became the major coalition partner of Yitzhak Rabin's Labour Party, helping pave the way for the Oslo Accords. The party also picked up several ministerial portfolios; Aloni was made Minister of Education, though disputes over the role of religion in education meant she was moved out of the education ministry to become Minister Without Portfolio in May 1993. In June she became Minister of Communications and Minister of Science and Technology, a role that was later renamed Minister of Science and the Arts. Amnon Rubinstein became Minister of Energy and Infrastructure and Minister of Science and Technology and later Minister of Education, Culture, and Sport, whilst Yossi Sarid was named Minister of the Environment and Yair Tzaban Minister of Immigrant Absorption.

I'm not sure that the explanation of the spelling ("this explains...") is appropriate, as this article is about Meretz, not Hebrew acronyms. Also Ratz isn't an acronym (at least not an obvious one), it's the party's ballot letters.

As for the spelling of Mapam: The (rarely followed) rule is that if the acronym is read as is, then the spelling should be with a word-final letter. If, on the other hand, the acronym is read as the full phrase, then it should be spelled with a word-medial letter. This rule is more often then not ignored, and the acronyms spelled either way.

By this rule Meretz should have been spelled with a word-final letter, but Meretz's logo designer probably thought that the logo would look better with a word-medial tzade :) Rami R 20:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Do we really have an article about Hebrew acronyms? No, nor can I create one because of all the restrictions you put on the unregistered contributors.

Am I the only person who may be stumbled upon their [un]conventional spelling? I believe that the info should be placed somewhere for the future visitors to find, and referred to from both this article and Mapam. --212.199.110.1 (talk) 06:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

There is Acronym and initialism#In Hebrew... Rami R 09:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Then anyway, this article needs an explicit mention that Meretz is an acronym for Mapam and Ratz, and an explanation of why Shinui had been left out of the acronym. Then, a brief mention that Hebrew acronyms follow specific spelling rules, and a link to the aforementioned article. Maybe even in the lead section it's worth mentioning that Meretz is an acronym pronounced the same as the word for "vigor", because it isn't the word for "vigor" itself (because of the different spelling). --212.199.110.1 (talk) 09:44, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. Hows about this version then:

Meretz was formed in 1992 prior to the elections by an alliance of three left-wing parties; Ratz, Mapam and Shinui, and was initially led by Ratz's chairwoman and long-time Knesset member Shulamit Aloni. The name "Meretz" (מרצ) was chosen as an acronym for Mapam (מפ"ם) and Ratz (רצ). The third party of the alliance wasn't reflected in its name, but was instead mentioned in the party's campaign slogan: "ממשלה עם מרצ, הכוח לעשות את השינוי" (A government with vigor [Meretz], the strength to make the change [Shinui]). Its first electoral test...

And information regarding the proper spelling of acronyms to be added the acronyms article. Seems OK? Rami R 10:19, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's good. --212.199.110.1 (talk) 04:04, 11 April 2008 (UTC)