Talk:Miguel Treviño Morales

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Good articleMiguel Treviño Morales has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 10, 2013Good article nomineeListed
In the newsA news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on July 17, 2013.

Money laundering[edit]

Get the load of this 6-page article: [1]. I hope it is useful for updates. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 19:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New York Times article[edit]

According to the New York Times Miguel Treviño Morales was never part of the military unit with Lazcano. The articles states that Treviño Morales was a smuggler who had roots in Nuevo Laredo and was brought in by Lazcano to handle logistics.RichardBond (talk) 20:04, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source: Miguel Ángel Treviño, known as Zeta-40, or just 40, was never in the military. But he became useful to the Zetas for his experience moving contraband across the border.
I think we should compare references and work it out. BatteryIncluded (talk) 14:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • RichardBond is right. Z-40 does not have a military background. [2] ComputerJA (talk) 15:07, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Right, in a narcomanta planted by Chapo Guzman he was described as former lavacarros (car washer) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.77.218.249 (talk) 01:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't know if the "narcomantas" should be considered legitimate, but a quick search I made proved Z-40 was not in the military. And, the citations in the article claiming he was of the GAFE's did not mention a thing about it. Best, ComputerJA (talk) 01:43, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So lets go for the NY Times article. Thanks, BatteryIncluded (talk) 01:50, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Confirmed split": Treviño Morales has more control than Lazcano[edit]

Here's a source saying that MTM has taken the lead of the organization, just above Lazcano. I'll wait for more Mexican sources to confirm this, however. [3] [4] ComputerJA (talk) 23:54, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Moreira's son allegedly killed by Z-40's men[edit]

[6] [7] Here are two links that say Z-40 may have ordered Jose Eduardo Moreira's execution after one of his nephews was killed in a gunbattle just a day before. I'll wait for sources to confirm. ComputerJA (talk) 04:53, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arrest?[edit]

He may have been arrested. We'll see if its true. [8] ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 20:23, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Birthdate[edit]

1970 as his birthday must be wrong. He looks younger, meaning reports about 39, 40 years of age must be correct. Probably 1973 should his year of birth. Cruks (talk) 21:39, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Source from the U.S. government says he was born in 1970. [9] The fact that he looks "younger" is not a good reason to change his actual DOB. Please read the footnote #1 for his alternative DOBs. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:50, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Introductory description[edit]

Needful, but don't you think it's longer than the actual limit? Capitals00 (talk) 08:59, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • The length of the leads, as explained in WP:LEADLENGTH, are just a general guideline. I'm guessing it can oftentimes be decided by consensus, too. As of now, I'm not sure what to exclude though... I think the lead fits perfectly. Might need some input from you. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 12:52, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Passive Voice[edit]

The Intro section (and likely the rest of the article) contains a slew of sentences that are written in the passive voice. I changed a few but User:ComputerJA reverted my changes, stating that "the intro is only a summary of the article. For details, read the sections below where the sources for it can be found. If you believe that something in the intro is not found elsewhere, please consult the talkpage."

I tagged several passive sentences in the article with {{ByWhom}}. I realize now that the ByWhom tag is for unsourced statements, not for passive statements. Regardless, the overuse of passive voice is poor style.

Furthermore, ComputerJA requests that I consult the talkpage before making changes. I noticed however that he doesn't seem to hold himself to the same standard.

I'll make one pass at identifying the passive voice in the intro. I might miss some. The point is to demonstrate its overuse.

  • "Considered a violent and dangerous criminal..."
  • "Miguel Ángel Treviño Morales...commonly referred to by his alias Z-40"
  • "His fluent English and experience of moving contraband...enabled him to be recruited..."
  • "...he was appointed as the regional boss of Los Zetas in Nuevo Laredo and was given the task to fight off the forces of the Sinaloa Cartel..."
  • "Treviño Morales was moved to Veracruz and appointed"
  • "victims would be dumped into oil barrels, doused with gasoline and burned alive."
  • "Mexican Marines arrested Treviño Morales...without a single bullet being fired. "
  • "he will be succeeded by his younger brother"

It's just way too much passive voice. Also, note that a guiso is a stew, not a cook out. --179.218.131.53 (talk) 00:46, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hi, thanks for your using the talkpage. I initially thought that your concern was that the intro was not supported by sources, not about its grammatical accuracy. I'm really sorry to have dismissed your comments earlier without looking back at the usage of passive voice. Are you willing to make the changes you addressed above in the article? I'm sure it will be of great help if you reword them for me so I can look at the rest of the article for more. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 06:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Miguel Treviño Morales/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Quadell (talk · contribs) 21:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator: ComputerJA

I will begin this review shortly. – Quadell (talk) 21:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for taking the time to review the article. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 21:18, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This article is a strong nominee. It is thorough and well-sourced. I've identified a number of issues below.

  • There are some problems with the names of the sections, and the levels of those sections, in the article's organization. For instance, most of Treviño's "Early life" was not part of his "Criminal career", but his command of Los Zetas (during the split and infighting) certainly were. I don't think "Criminal career" is a good name for a super-section, since his criminal career is pretty much all he's notable for. Details of his arrest should not really be a sub-section of "Bounty and indictments". I don't think the wording needs to reorganized or rearranged, but I do think the section names and levels should be re-thought.
  • checkY I added "Early life" as a stand-alone section and removed "Criminal career", merging its two subsections into one. Let me know if you like it. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This article consistently refers to the subject as "Treviño Morales" (when not using the full name), using both the paternal and maternal family names, as do some of the news sources. But both the New York Times and CNN simply refer to him as "Treviño", which is shorter. Is there a reason you prefer to use the longer version?
  • I always come along this problem when using Mexican v. American sources. Mexican sources usually use his full last name, while American sources either use "Trevino" or "Trevino-Morales" (note the hyphen). Both the Mexican government and the U.S. government use his two last names. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead says he had "six brothers and six sisters", but the body says he was born into "a large family of at least six sons and six daughters". So first, did he have (at least) 5 brothers or 6? And secondly, if the body thinks there might be more, then the lead should not claim certainty on the number.
  • checkY This was a mistake on my part. Proceso source says Z40's parents had 13 children (counting Z40), and I was counting him as a brother to by mistake. Fixed. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure it's fair to call guiso "his favorite torture method". (He used it a lot, but do we know if it was his favorite?)
  • checkY Paraphrased to "A common torture method of his was known as guiso (stew)". ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think the "Notes" at the bottom of the infobox are relevant any longer, since he is now in prison and the reward is no longer active.
  • The article states "Treviño Morales grew up detesting Mexico's class disparity and developed so much resentment as to partially explain his explosive behavior as an adult". The words "detesting" and "explosive" come directly from the source, and should be reworded to be more encyclopedic (and to avoid any hint of Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing).
  • The "Early Life" section describes El Karis, "who later became his mentor and eventually ended up replacing him in Nuevo Laredo." It isn't clear what this means. El Karis replaced Treviño? In what? Treviño was a yard-worker and car-washer at this point.
  • checkY Fixed. Z40 replaced him as the Zetas leader in Nuevo Laredo. It should be clear now. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Direct quotes always need a source immediately after. It's acceptable to have the source at the end of the sentence, but only if it's clear where the quote came from. It isn't clear where the quote "power, money, weapons and the vast consumer market for illegal drugs" comes from.
  • checkY Good catch. I added the source appropriately now. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first paragraph in "Early Life" ends with "Treviño Morales had crossed illegally into the United States", and it feels like an afterthought. But that paragraph describes several crossings (and even that he "frequented" Dallas). Were his entries into the U.S. generally illegal? If so, the fact should probably be mentioned earlier in the paragraph, in a way that fits better into the flow of the prose.
  • Source says "As late as 2005," he had crossed illegally into the U.S. I am not sure if he crossed illegal prior to that. [10] ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The header "Los Zetas splits from the Gulf Cartel" is in the present tense. I would reword it as a noun phrase (or gerund phrase) like the other sections. You might try "Split between Los Zetas and the Gulf Cartel" or something similar
  • I have made a number of copy-edits to the article. If you disagree with any of them, feel free to revert and discuss.
  • They all look good. Thanks for taking the time to fix the article's wording. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is very close to GA status. I'll put this nomination on hold, and if these issues are resolved, I expect I'll be able to promote it. All the best, – Quadell (talk) 18:59, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the review. I think the concerns have been addressed. Let me know if you have anymore. Regards, ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 22:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your promptness! I have made a few more changes in wording for smoothness of prose, based on the discussion above. This now passes all our GA criteria, and I am happy to promote the article. – Quadell (talk) 13:58, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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