Talk:Mostafa Khamenei
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Requested move 2 January 2020[edit]
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved — Amakuru (talk) 17:49, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
Seyyed Mostafa Khamenei → Mostafa Khamenei – Seyyed is in fact a honorific title and these types of titles are usually avoided when it comes to naming articles. Examples include pages of his own family members (Ali, Hadi, Mojtaba, Javad) and dozens of other articles about religious scholars and politicians from Iran, which omit this title. Keivan.fTalk 20:30, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
- At Iran, "Seyyed" is a part of name for somebodies and mentioned in passport, identity card, driving licence, and etc. It's not honorific. Benyamin (talk) 00:22, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- It's still honorific. Sayyid is neither their first name nor last name. It's just a form of address and none of the other articles on English Wikipedia use it as a part of their main titles. Keivan.fTalk 06:14, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
- It's not. ID card of his father shows that "Seyyed" is a part of the first name. Benyamin (talk) 18:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
- It's not his first name. It's an honorific title included before his name on his birth certificate. Similar examples can be found among nobility, such as Prince George of Cambridge who is titled His Royal Highness Prince George of Cambridge on his birth certificate, but the honorific title is omitted from the title of his article. Keivan.fTalk 01:59, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- I'm talking about "Seyyed" in Iran, not royal titles in UK! Iranian native users of wikipedia have consensus that "Seyyed" is a part of first name of Iranian peoples. Benyamin (talk) 20:23, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- I just provided an example to support my statement; otherwise I know this article has nothing to do with royalty. The consensus on the Persian Wikipedia is not applicable here. On the English Wikipedia, such prefixes and titles are avoided as much as possible. I could carry on and give you thousands of examples. Not to mention that Sayyid literally means "Sir/Mister" in Arabic. Thus, it's a form of address and honorific. Additionally, this article's title must change as it needs to obey WP:CONSISTENCY as well. All of his family members are listed by their first and last name only, including his father. There's no need to make an exception here. Keivan.fTalk 05:41, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- Every name has a meaning and this isn't amazing. Matter is this: "Seyyed" has not honorific presence in Iran, and consensus of Iranian users of Persian Wikipedia (as individuals who know wikipedia's policies and guidelines) proof this. Benyamin (talk) 09:27, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- Is he using Seyyed as his first name? No. Seyyed in this case is honorific, because it only shows that he's a descendant of Muhammad; that's the actual meaning of the word here. It has no other meaning in this case. And, according to whom Seyyed is not considered honorific? Even if that's how it is in Iran, that's still not the case in English-speaking countries and those rules could not be applied here. Consensus on the Persian Wikipedia has no credibility here as Wikipedia's sister projects are not a source for any other projects on Wikipedia. Keivan.fTalk 20:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- Pay more attention, please. I hadn't chose sister projects as a source. I said Iranian native users of wikipedia have consensus that "Seyyed" is a part of first name of Iranian peoples. Users of other countries have not efficient information about Iranian names. User:Sa.vakilian can tell you that "Seyyed" is a part of his first name in his National ID card and his Passport.
Is he using Seyyed as his first name?
Are you kidding with me? I had shown you a sample National ID card of a person who is "Seyyed"! Benyamin (talk) 22:14, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- Pay more attention, please. I hadn't chose sister projects as a source. I said Iranian native users of wikipedia have consensus that "Seyyed" is a part of first name of Iranian peoples. Users of other countries have not efficient information about Iranian names. User:Sa.vakilian can tell you that "Seyyed" is a part of his first name in his National ID card and his Passport.
- Is he using Seyyed as his first name? No. Seyyed in this case is honorific, because it only shows that he's a descendant of Muhammad; that's the actual meaning of the word here. It has no other meaning in this case. And, according to whom Seyyed is not considered honorific? Even if that's how it is in Iran, that's still not the case in English-speaking countries and those rules could not be applied here. Consensus on the Persian Wikipedia has no credibility here as Wikipedia's sister projects are not a source for any other projects on Wikipedia. Keivan.fTalk 20:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- Every name has a meaning and this isn't amazing. Matter is this: "Seyyed" has not honorific presence in Iran, and consensus of Iranian users of Persian Wikipedia (as individuals who know wikipedia's policies and guidelines) proof this. Benyamin (talk) 09:27, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- I just provided an example to support my statement; otherwise I know this article has nothing to do with royalty. The consensus on the Persian Wikipedia is not applicable here. On the English Wikipedia, such prefixes and titles are avoided as much as possible. I could carry on and give you thousands of examples. Not to mention that Sayyid literally means "Sir/Mister" in Arabic. Thus, it's a form of address and honorific. Additionally, this article's title must change as it needs to obey WP:CONSISTENCY as well. All of his family members are listed by their first and last name only, including his father. There's no need to make an exception here. Keivan.fTalk 05:41, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
- I'm talking about "Seyyed" in Iran, not royal titles in UK! Iranian native users of wikipedia have consensus that "Seyyed" is a part of first name of Iranian peoples. Benyamin (talk) 20:23, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- It's not his first name. It's an honorific title included before his name on his birth certificate. Similar examples can be found among nobility, such as Prince George of Cambridge who is titled His Royal Highness Prince George of Cambridge on his birth certificate, but the honorific title is omitted from the title of his article. Keivan.fTalk 01:59, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- It's not. ID card of his father shows that "Seyyed" is a part of the first name. Benyamin (talk) 18:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
- It's still honorific. Sayyid is neither their first name nor last name. It's just a form of address and none of the other articles on English Wikipedia use it as a part of their main titles. Keivan.fTalk 06:14, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Seyyed redirects to Sayyid which starts "Sayyid (... meaning "Mister"; ) is an honorific title..." and the hatnotes say it is an honorific title. It is also a given name: Sayyid (name). But from what I can make out, in this case it is not part of his given name and the article itself implies this by using "Mostafa Khamenei" without the "Sayyed" at the start of the third paragraph. In any case, in English sources he seems mostly to be referred to without "Sayyed" (or other transliteration) so this falls under WP:COMMONNAME. 94.21.10.204 (talk) 05:50, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- Support While Seyyed can be both an honourific title and a given name, his brother Mojtaba has "Sayyed" included in his name, which, if the slightly different spelling can be overlooked, would seem quite irregular were it also to be his given name. Havradim (talk) 17:08, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.