Talk:Museum of Contemporary Art Australia

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Added Content

Hello all! I'm so pleased to be here and working on this article for a university assignment. Feedback is more than welcome - I want to make the best article possible. Cheers, LibraryofEphesus (talk) 02:06, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)

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Architectural controversies

Hi all, I've added a section on the museum's architecture, as it is a key feature of its presence in Circular Quay and Sydney as a whole.

I think it's worth discussing the controvery around the museum's renovation, but I've tried not to dedicate too much unwarranted space to these debates. Many of the top results when searching the musesum are entries into this debate, but a deep-dive into public outcry and architectural merits seems outside the scope of an encyclopedic entry.

I'm open to any other points on this though if anyone believes that more content on this chapter would be appropriate.

Thomasalamander (talk) 09:09, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Looks good to me! Thanks for your contribution, Thomasalamander. (Also, the article looks ready to be classified as a C by now too - it's obviously way better than a stub.) Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:24, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Changes to come

Since LibraryofEphesus hasn't edited in over four months, I am going to implement all those changes I suggested in the peer review myself in the next couple of weeks with the goal of nominating the article for GA afterwards. If anyone has anything to say about this, now is a good time to speak up. Daniel Case (talk) 21:13, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

OK, it's been about six weeks. I have begun with adding some sources. Next comes writing more detailed sections on the building, restructuring the article a bit, and getting rid of the transport section. Daniel Case (talk) 20:00, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Museum of Contemporary Art Australia/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: HenryCrun15 (talk · contribs) 05:00, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

• I will take on this review. I aim to have completed my review by 20 January. HenryCrun15 (talk) 05:00, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the opportunity to review this article. I think it's an excellent article and I'm pleased to have had the chance to read it and work on it.

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Generally, the prose is well-written. The recommendations below are largely minor fixes. Lead section: Use "on George Street", not "in George Street". To me "on" a street means "located at the street" while "in" a street means "in the middle of the road". Remove ", both" from the first sentence. It's not needed. The museum is housed in the Stripped Classical/Art Deco-styled former Maritime Services Board Building on the western side of Circular Quay, and a modern wing built in 2012. This sentence isn't quite right. Try something like "The museum is ... western side of Circular Quay, plus a modern wing which was built in 2012." At first it was known as the Museum of Contemporary Art, Sydney. The new museum rapidly outgrew its space... – suggest rewording to "At its founding, the museum was called the Museum of Contemporary Art, Sydney. It rapidly outgrew its space..." ...and diversified the museum's funding. – Change "funding" to "funding sources" or similar. Infobox: Because 2020 was such an unusual year, consider also giving visitor numbers for, say, 2019. Building: Add a subheading like "Location" before the first paragraph. Within Exterior, if you have a subheading for the Mordant Wing description, also have a subheading for the MSB building description. Roughly six storeys? Why is it uncertain? When used as the MSB building the interior made extensive use of... Suggest rephrasing as "When used by the Maritime Services Board, the interior made extensive use of..." The fourth story's offices have been retained to serve the same purpose for the museum administration. – Simplify by removing "to serve the same purpose". History Before the first section, add a subheading along the lines of "History of the site of the museum". The establishment of the MCA was mandated in the will of Australian expatriate artist JW Power... I'm not sure that "mandated" is the right word here. To my knowledge, a will cannot compel a person to do a thing, though it can set conditions on receiving the person's property. Maybe the article should go, "The establishment of the MCA was set out in the will of Australian expatriate artist JW Power (1881–1943), the first Australian-born painter to experiment with Cubism. Independently wealthy from his previous medical career, he bequeathed his personal fortune, mostly stock worth £A2 million, to his alma mater, the University of Sydney, on the condition that it be used to inform and educate Australians...", if that is accurate. On the £A2 million bequest, MOS:CURRENCY says the following: For obsolete currencies, provide an equivalent (formatted as a conversion) if possible, in the modern replacement currency (e.g. decimal pounds for historical pre-decimal pounds-and-shillings), or a US-dollar equivalent where there is no modern equivalent. In some cases, it may be appropriate to provide a conversion accounting for inflation or deflation over time. See {{Inflation}} and {{Inflation-fn}}. There's a slightly confusing timeline on the bequest. The first paragraph in that section seems to imply that the donation was made at his death (1943) and was worth £A2 million at that time. The next paragraph describes how the university didn't actually get the money until 1961 (and the source shows that the 2 million figure was an estimate from 1961 not 1943). I'd recommend merging the two paragraphs and rewording it so it is clearer. Plans by Sauerbruch Hutton, winners of a 2000 competition, were also abandoned following public outcry over the proposed demolition of the MSB building. For better flow from the previous sentence, I'd suggest rewording to "Another competition was held in 2000; it was won by Sauerbruch Hutton who proposed demolishing the MSB building. This met public outcry and these plans were also abandoned." Scotswoman - avoid gendered terms unless it is relevant. Just use "Scot" or "Scottish person". In 1999, with the MCA facing the prospect of bankruptcy,[37] the board hired Elizabeth Ann Macgregor, a Scotswoman who had worked with the Arts Council of Great Britain and as director of the Ikon Gallery, a major contemporary art museum also housed in a repurposed heritage-listed building in Birmingham, to head the museum. This sentence is long. Can it be broken into two sentences - one on the decision to hire McGregor and one on who she is? In 2002 McGregor had begun developing plans... I think grammatically this should either be "By 2002 McGregor had begun developing plans..." or "In 2002 McGregor began developing plans...", whichever is most accurate. ...with an all-time high of 1.1 million in 2018... This phrase isn't stable in time. It reads like the 2018 figure has never been exceeded, and as time goes on it may well be exceeded, making this phrase wrong. I'd recommend something like "...with a new record of 1.1 million in 2018..." instead. To that end she has also hired around 84 working artists... Since this is the history section, make this fully past tense eg "To that end she also hired around 84 working artists...". ...restrictions adopted to prevent transmission of the disease, either voluntarily or by government mandate, forced many museums and art galleries around the world to close. This isn't needed. The article has a description on what happened for Covid both in Australia and in this museum. It doesn't add to this article to talks about the response by other countries and other museums/galleries. Within her first year as chair, Tarabay oversaw the hiring process for a new director when McGregor stepped down in March 2021 after 22 years at MCA to return to Scotland and spend more time with her family. I would move this down to the last paragraph in this subsection. It relates entirely to events after the paragraph starting By the end of 2020.... I would also reverse the sentence order, starting with McGregor's resignation and then going into the hiring process. As it is currently phrased there is a risk a reader might read into this that Tarabay, as a new chair, pushed McGregor to leave.
	1b. it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	All good here.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	All good.
	2b. all inline citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines.	Some detailed information is sourced to "Google Maps" and "see accompanying photo". I'd recommend reducing this; it comes across a bit as original research, as it is the wrtier's conclusions from what they have seen.
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Generally excellent on this. If you wanted to add even more, you could optionally add: The lead section says that McGregor diversified the museum's funding, but the history section on McGregor's takeover of the museum doesn't expand on what this means. Could more details be added there? You could add a new section on "Governance and funding", setting out how the museum is owned, operated, and funded today. Some of this is already in the article but scattered about the History section.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	The Building section has a lot of detail about things that are next to the museum, as well as things that are simply near the museum. Noting its location within the city is good, as is noting the general character of the area and major neaby landmarks like the Opera House and the Harbour Bridge. But I would consider that is is excessive to describe things like the Cahill Expressway, skyscrapers, and railway stations. I would also reduce down descriptions of other things. Consider, say, reducing Cruise ships moor at the quay to the northeast and ferries serving the Sydney area arrive and depart from slips to the southeast, just opposite the Circular Quay railway station. down to Nearby, cruise ships moor at the quay and ferries serving the Sydney area arrive and depart from slips. This section also mentions the First Fleet park twice. There may be excessive detail on buildings that previously occupied the site where the museum building is today. For example, the article talks about buildings which were once on the site where the museum is and were demolished more 40 years before the museum started to move there. That's not a problem, but is it appropriate to go into details about these buildings like naming their architects, who built them, that their stone blocks were used elsewhere in the suburb, etc? I'm not sure it should all be removed but please consider if it meets Wikipedia's guidelines.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	All good. It does a particularly good job of presenting viewpoints around the architecture of the building (and its extension) itself.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	No problems here.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content.	All good, though I would suggest the following changes to some captions: An exhibit hall - since this photo is showing a specific exhibit, expand this caption to something like "An exhibit hall, shown here with work by Yoko Ono in a 2013 exhibition". The Commissariat Stores, in 1872 - Recommend "The Commissariat Stores, shown here in 1872, once occupied the site where the museum is today." Elizabeth Ann McGregor – expand to "Elizabeth Ann McGregor, the museum's director from 1999 to 2021".
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	This to me meets the criteria to be a Good Article. I would recommend that you do make the changes described above, but nothing there is major enough that I feel like withholding the approval for them.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 09:06, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Mordant Wing from northeast

• ... that the Museum of Contemporary Art Australia (Mordant Wing, pictured) is the only contemporary art museum in the country with a permanent collection? Source: "It will reopen March 29 as the Museum of Contemporary Art Australia — a name that reflects its status as the only contemporary art museum in the country with a permanent collection."; Ginanne Brownell, The New York Times; March 21, 2010
  • ALT1: ... that it took almost 50 years to establish the Museum of Contemporary Art Australia (Mordant Wing, pictured) from JW Power's bequest to the University of Sydney for that purpose? Source: "The Museum of Contemporary Art was founded in 1989 to deliver the ‘museum’ aspect of John Power’s desire to bring international contemporary art to Australia ... John Power was a visionary benefactor who bequeathed to the University of Sydney funds: ... to make available to the people of Australia the latest ideas and theories… of the most recent contemporary art of the world and by creation of schools lecture halls museums and other places for the purpose… of suitably housing the works purchased so as to bring the people of Australia in more direct touch with the latest art developments in other countries. (1939 Will of John Power)", JW Power Collection, Museum of Contemporary Art Australia
  • ALT2: ... that JW Power's £A2 million bequest to the University of Sydney to establish the Museum of Contemporary Art Australia (Mordant Wing, pictured) was the largest yet made to an Australian university? Source: Same as Alt1: "At that time it was the largest monetary bequest – approximately 2 million pounds in shares – ever received by the University of Sydney or by any arts body."
  • ALT3: ... that when the Museum of Contemporary Art Australia (Mordant Wing, pictured) was struggling financially around 2000, its new director increased visitation by eliminating the admission fee? Source: Same as ALT0: "The 1999 appointment of Ms. Macgregor, a Scot who had previously worked for the Arts Council of Great Britain and also as director of Birmingham’s Ikon Gallery, immediately helped to turn the museum’s reputation around. 'The first thing we did was to take the door charge off,' she said. 'As soon as we did that, it completely changed the atmosphere. People came in out of curiosity' ... Attendance rose from 100,000 a year to almost 600,000 by the time the museum closed for renovations in 2010."
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ode to Billie Joe
  • Comment: As I said at my recent renomination of Midnight Sun Mosque, I would like this one to not run on the Main Page until that one has, since it will be my 700th DYK and I'd like for it to be that one as it's special to me.

Improved to Good Article status by Daniel Case (talk). Self-nominated at 21:04, 15 January 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: This article was promoted to Good Article status on January 14, 2022. The article is prose size (text only): 32541 characters (5217 words) "readable prose size." The article is well sourced, and all hooks listed here are sourced. The article neutral and plagiarism-free. While all hooks work well and meet DYK criteria, I prefer the original hook. The image in this DYK is free and is licensed CC BY-SA 3.0. I ask that admins be mindful of Daniel Case's request that this DYK not run on the Main Page until Midnight Sun Mosque has, since that will be their 700th DYK. West Virginian (talk) 22:50, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• @West Virginian and Daniel Case: a new source appears to have been added since West Virginian indicated approval, it's a podcast titled Build It; They'll Come: Elizabeth Ann Macgregor with a former director of the MCA. It's usable under WP:ABOUTSELF, i suppose, but it's used ten times and not always for trivial claims. Could this be cleared up? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 00:58, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
  • @Theleekycauldron: What would you like me to do? It's hosted by Helen Dalley, one of Australia's most respected journalists ... I'm not quite sure that comes under ABOUTSELF if there's two people involved, and it wasn't self-published. I mean, if it were a print interview published in a magazine or newspaper, I don't see why we're having this conversation.

    What non-trivial claims would you like to call attention to? I'm about halfway through listening to it, and I don't see anything that really conflicts with the other sources. Daniel Case (talk) 02:41, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

    • Ah-that's my mistake, i didn't realize it was more of an interview format. That works fine, then :) sorry about that! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 02:43, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

ALT0 to T:DYK/P4 without image

Courtesy

Did somebody get out of bed the wrong side this morning, Daniel Case? This edit summary would suggest so. Perhaps you need a reminder of WP:CIVIL. Also, just fyi, WP:BOLDAVOID doesn't say to avoid bolding elsewhere in the first para, and there are many articles where this is used. It allows the reader who has arrived there via the redirect to quickly spot how and why. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 05:13, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Sorry about that ... I just see that MOS:REDUNDANCY thing way too often and in that situation I thought it would have been especially intuitive not to do it. But I could have expressed it differently.

As for the bolding that deep, I know there's a page somewhere in the MOS that mentions that. You're thinking of WP:ASTONISH. I think, IIRC, the general rule is that if it's important enough to boldface it's important enough to put in the first graf. Daniel Case (talk) 05:22, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah. It's MOS:BOLDREDIRECT: "Terms which redirect to an article or section are commonly bolded when they appear in the first couple of paragraphs of the lead section, or at the beginning of another section" In that case you would have been OK. Sorry again. Daniel Case (talk) 05:25, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, lastly, I'm not in Australia (though I was in Singapore last week; on the same time zone). I have yet to go to bed tonight. But I will be soon. . Daniel Case (talk) 05:30, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay, no worries! Thanks for the notes. :-) Laterthanyouthink (talk) 06:57, 27 August 2023 (UTC)