Talk:Nana Okada/Archive 1
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External links modified (February 2018)
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Relationship with Murayama
Can you somehow rewrite this section in a less ambiguous way? Because it is built as if the author is trying to convince us that their relationship is romantic. Solaire the knight (talk) 12:00, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- It sounds ambiguous because Okada, Murayama, and everybody around them keep it ambiguous. It's understandable that anyone interested in yuri might interpret it in a romantic way. PetéWarrior (talk) 15:04, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- Then why not write it that way? At the moment, it looks like you intentionally want to lead the reader to certain conclusions, which directly violates the rules about POV. With the exact same logic, I can write that this is a typical buisness yuri, so their relationship is always ambiguous in order to attract attention and at the same time not turn Okada into an idol only for the yuri audience, but I will not do that, because it would be a gross violation of neutrality. Solaire the knight (talk) 17:19, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- You said it's currently ambiguous, which means it's open to interpretation. Asking it to be edited to be less ambiguous means making it less open to interpretation, which means it would lean to one POV or another, which you correctly said is against Wikipedia's rules.
- Then why not write it that way? At the moment, it looks like you intentionally want to lead the reader to certain conclusions, which directly violates the rules about POV. With the exact same logic, I can write that this is a typical buisness yuri, so their relationship is always ambiguous in order to attract attention and at the same time not turn Okada into an idol only for the yuri audience, but I will not do that, because it would be a gross violation of neutrality. Solaire the knight (talk) 17:19, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
In any case, I think the part in question is more related to public image than personal life, might rearrange it accordingly. PetéWarrior (talk) 18:38, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- This is the personal life of a living person, not a fictional character or historical figure. Have you read the rules for writing articles about living contemporaries? If reputable secondary sources describe it well, then it can be rewritten from them. For example, you can write that her friendship with someone is often discussed as possible romantic, including due to teasing of the girls themselves. Or split it altogether so the phrases don't affect each other. Romantic friendship is generally quite common among girls in Japanese show business (for obvious reasons), but remember that these are biographies of living people, not the all-female show wiki Solaire the knight (talk) 18:54, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- That's why I've just split it into a "Public image" section, to ensure that it's clear that it's part of her public persona. You should notice that the previous version was backed by several secondary sources, which I've moved to the new section as well. PetéWarrior (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- I had no complaints about the sources. Secondly, I made some small clarifications, since despite the memes, their relationship was never explicitly stated as romantic. So near-romantic is a better word here. At the same time, as far as I know, she directly confirmed that she is bisexual. Solaire the knight (talk) 19:24, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- That's why I've just split it into a "Public image" section, to ensure that it's clear that it's part of her public persona. You should notice that the previous version was backed by several secondary sources, which I've moved to the new section as well. PetéWarrior (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- This is the personal life of a living person, not a fictional character or historical figure. Have you read the rules for writing articles about living contemporaries? If reputable secondary sources describe it well, then it can be rewritten from them. For example, you can write that her friendship with someone is often discussed as possible romantic, including due to teasing of the girls themselves. Or split it altogether so the phrases don't affect each other. Romantic friendship is generally quite common among girls in Japanese show business (for obvious reasons), but remember that these are biographies of living people, not the all-female show wiki Solaire the knight (talk) 18:54, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
Bisexuality
In the "Personal life" section, there was a line that stated "Okada has hinted that she is bisexual." This is worded really ambiguously, and Wikipedia is not a place for speculations. lullabying (talk) 17:49, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- I also want to point out that the only sources used to support her bisexuality is a primary source where she states she has no preference in gender for relationships but doesn't say anything outright, as well as a tabloid speculating her sexuality. Unless there is a reliable secondary source to support this statement, this may be grounds for removal due to WP:RUMOR and WP:BLPPRIVACY. lullabying (talk) 18:06, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- I am afraid that we may endlessly try to find the truth in this, since she is actually in charge of the buisness yuri s in the group and many of her activities are deliberately grotesquely campy (which is quite successful if you look at how the various fandom wikies describe her). So I agreed with the source due to the fact that its didn't seem to look like another bait from Okada-san and the band's producers. Solaire the knight (talk) 21:53, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- If her bisexuality is still up for speculation and not directly confirmed, then we may have to remove it from the article, unfortunately, as Wikipedia isn't a place to put assumptions. For the record, she may very well be but has not chosen to come out yet and for that matter it's important to respect one's privacy. lullabying (talk) 00:49, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- I do not think that "hinting at her bisexuality" is "she is bisexual", this is literally a quote from the personalities themselves, and not any direct statement or speculation. One way or another, the author generally replaced this with "stated to be non-heterosexual", which is close to her statement about the absence of a preferred gender, but noticeably contradicts her whole image of a unit's token yuri girl (however, wikipedia is not obliged to support the stage image of celebrities). Solaire the knight (talk) 14:43, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- UPDI. n order not to create additional confusion about the terms she used or identity, I just rewrote the phrase according to the source. I think the line "I'm not a lesbian, I just don't have any preferred gender" speaks perfectly for itself without "hinted" or "stated" with terms that she didn't use. Solaire the knight (talk) 14:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- The current writing is an improvement over what was previously written. Cheers. lullabying (talk) 04:51, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- UPDI. n order not to create additional confusion about the terms she used or identity, I just rewrote the phrase according to the source. I think the line "I'm not a lesbian, I just don't have any preferred gender" speaks perfectly for itself without "hinted" or "stated" with terms that she didn't use. Solaire the knight (talk) 14:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- I do not think that "hinting at her bisexuality" is "she is bisexual", this is literally a quote from the personalities themselves, and not any direct statement or speculation. One way or another, the author generally replaced this with "stated to be non-heterosexual", which is close to her statement about the absence of a preferred gender, but noticeably contradicts her whole image of a unit's token yuri girl (however, wikipedia is not obliged to support the stage image of celebrities). Solaire the knight (talk) 14:43, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- If her bisexuality is still up for speculation and not directly confirmed, then we may have to remove it from the article, unfortunately, as Wikipedia isn't a place to put assumptions. For the record, she may very well be but has not chosen to come out yet and for that matter it's important to respect one's privacy. lullabying (talk) 00:49, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- I am afraid that we may endlessly try to find the truth in this, since she is actually in charge of the buisness yuri s in the group and many of her activities are deliberately grotesquely campy (which is quite successful if you look at how the various fandom wikies describe her). So I agreed with the source due to the fact that its didn't seem to look like another bait from Okada-san and the band's producers. Solaire the knight (talk) 21:53, 18 October 2021 (UTC)