Talk:Naomi Higgins

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Naomi Higgins article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Australia Low‑importance

Naomi Higgins is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

More information:
/
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Comedy Low‑importance

	Comedy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Comedy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of comedy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ComedyWikipedia:WikiProject ComedyTemplate:WikiProject ComedyComedy articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Internet culture Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of internet culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Internet cultureWikipedia:WikiProject Internet cultureTemplate:WikiProject Internet cultureInternet culture articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Internet culture To-do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : View all requested internet culture articles
Expand : Pick an article from here or here
Photo : Category:Internet culture articles needing images
Stubs : All stubs are located here
Other : Category:Internet self-classification codes (!?); Try to get YouTube to FA; Tag all articles you find with {{WikiProject Internet culture}}
- See also Category:Internet culture articles needing attention

This page was nominated at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion on 22 August 2021. The result of the discussion was Reverted to article.

Daily pageviews of this article

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

For your kind attention[edit]

@DMySon:, this article bypassed your AfC review. -Hatchens (talk) 15:15, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hatchens, Thanks for ping. I can see you have already marked it for speedy under A10. DMySon (talk) 16:08, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life[edit]

Hey @Pogchampion69:, firstly sorry about having accidentally created the article while your draft was submitted, but we appear to have begun them within minutes of each other. I'm sure there was no common inciting incident. However, the policy for BLP is to not include exact birthdate unless it's very public - I don't really pay attention to dates when they're mentioned, does she frequently talk about it? Citations of that are obviously hard, I know I'm not willing to go through hundreds of hours of podcasts with a specific goal, and Twitch streams are ephemeral so most can't be retroactively checked anyway, so if you think she has made it public we can take it as true for now and source it next time she/others do mention it. From reading your draft, I saw that you mentioned her partner. It's obviously fine if you do add that info here, but I wanted to explain my reasoning for not including that. WP articles about women are consistently more likely to talk about their relationships, and it's one of the many many many gender bias issues of WP. For that reason, I tend to actively avoid mentioning women's relationships unless it's central to their notability. That's a personal choice about the way I contribute to WP though, and I won't remove it if anyone does add it (I may change the way it's said though, ngl). -- Xurizuri (talk) 02:22, 8 August 2021 (UTC) // edited a wikilink to point to the correct place 02:55, 8 August 2021 (UTC) // lmao I noticed another mistake, I added a phrase to make a sentence work. 07:04, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article's history: AfC, CSD and redirect[edit]

Hi, I'd like to have a record here to make it easy for people in future to figure out what's happened. Please correct me if I get anything here wrong.

7 August 2021

09:21UTC - A draft of this article was created at Draft:Naomi Higgins by User:Pogchampion69.
09:22UTC - The draft was submitted to AfC.
10:13UTC - This article was created here by myself (note: I started writing it before the draft was submitted to AfC).
12:43UTC - The draft was declined by User:DMySon as it didn't meet the minimum standards for BLP inline citations.
15:08UTC - Pogchampion69 merged their draft into this article.
12:13UTC - This article was marked for speedy deletion under A10 by User:Hatchens (A10 referred to the draft)
21:26UTC - User:Sdrqaz contests speedy deletion, with edit summary "Declination of A10 CSD nomination – does not apply to duplicates of drafts".

22 August 2021

04:19UTC - User:The Grid blanks article and makes it a redirect to the draft, with edit summary "Article is not ready for mainspace; AfC was purposely bypassed".
11:27UTC - User:Stefan2 listed the redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 22#Naomi Higgins because it violated WP:R2.
13:16UTC - User:Spinningspark restored the article, edit summary "Cross-namespace redirects of this sort are against guidlines WP:R#DELETE#6"
13:24UTC - Spinningspark closed the RFD. "The result of the discussion was Reverted to article. Purposely bypassing AFC is not against policy, even if that was true. AFC is not a compulsory process. What is against guidelines is creating this kind of cross-namespace redirect. The editors involved should decide themselves what, if anything or everything, should be merged from the draft."

And I believe that's everything. @The Grid:, now we just need to address Spinningspark's recommendation. Firstly, to address your concerns regarding good faith, I'll explain why both articles were made at the same time. We were both in her Twitch chat and people were talking about making a Wikipedia article. And clearly then we both wrote one, except we have different levels of experience with WP editing and went different routes. Secondly, this article does meet the minimum standards for citation, so it addresses the reason that the draft was declined. Finally, I would've said there was a consensus here about what was merged from the draft, up to and including the edits by the IP (@Pogchampion69:, would you agree?). As a heads up, I have reinstated those IP edits because I can't verify the claims that got removed, and it's better to be safe than sorry with BLP. I'm happy either way if anybody does verify them though. Does anyone have any other concerns about the article? Might as well clear it up now. --Xurizuri (talk) 13:37, 24 August 2021 (UTC) // edited wikilink 13:38, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unless either author has a conflict of interest with the subject, there is nothing inherently wrong with bypassing AfC. If any editor feels that the subject is not sufficiently notable (I haven't looked closely into it), the course of action is not to redirect it to draft or move it back to draftspace (with the caveat for COI and paid editors). The course of action is to either propose it for deletion or nominate it for deletion. Sdrqaz (talk) 14:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sdrqaz, I'm in agreement with you. - Hatchens (talk) 15:04, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the timeline of events. I would have tried to keep everything to draft before it got on mainspace. – The Grid (talk) 16:42, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

After analyzing the Afc, CSD and redirect log which are provided by Sdrqaz, i can say this is the case of COI and the article must be moved into the draft.DMySon (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have evidence of a COI? @Pogchampion69 and Xurizuri: Do you have a conflict of interest with Higgins? Sdrqaz (talk) 17:38, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good lord no, I don't edit articles I have a CoI with. If youse would rather be safe and put it through the AfC process, I'm not gonna get up in arms about it. I have pride in my work, but I also have pride in not having been the subject of dispute mediation. @DMySon: (or anyone else that assesses drafts) could I ask whether you would approve this article as is, if it came through AfC? --Xurizuri (talk) 10:11, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wait what log provided by Sdrqaz? --Xurizuri (talk) 10:13, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for letting me know. I assume they've confused you with me, because I've not provided any logs.

I'm not in favour of moving it back and forth. It's now in the mainspace. Like I said, if someone has an issue with its notability, take it to AfD. Sdrqaz (talk) 12:53, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]