Talk:National Party (Ireland, 2016)

This is a Conservative party, not far right.

This is a Conservative party, not a “far-right.” As a fellow Irishman, I can confirm this. -2600:1005:B120:B2A6:1FF:1786:8891:C807 (talk) 22:37, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi. Anyone reading the sources will be able to confirm that multiple reliable sources (including the Irish Independent, Irish Times and several otherwise reliable sources) describe the subject as a "far-right" party. Hence that is what the article reflects. Per WP:VER and related guidelines. The nationality of editors (or readers) is otherwise not relevant. Guliolopez (talk) 22:51, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Guliolopez, user's IP /64 range is now blocked. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 23:00, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Trivia

Randolph-Bourne, if you are Bold and add content, and that gets Reverted, the correct response is to Discuss on the Talk page; not to reinstate your edit. Follow the WP:BRD process and establish whether or not there is consensus for your addition before re-adding it. You've apparently edited previously under a different account (which one? - please let us know) so should be aware of this.

As to why your edit was reverted? Because - as per the edit summary - it was trivia. It would not pass the WP:10YEARTEST and is WP:UNDUE for inclusion. Just because something can be sourced doesn't mean it's worthy for inclusion. Few, if any, other articles list how much a party or candidate spent on a bye-election, and nor should this one. Certainly no Irish political articles do. Someone on the internet got some abuse on Twitter? Simply not newsworthy! I got some abuse on here today for being so bold as to fix some typos, but I don't expect that to appear in the Wikipedia article. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 16:18, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Bastun, it appears you are in a bit of a habit of gatekeeping articles on Irish politics. Do we need a discussion every time content is added to an article? The information I've added to the page is from the news, which would therefore imply it is newsworthy. Somebody receiving abuse on twitter in this instance even got its own headline.

Regarding my former use of wiki, you are only aware as I have stated on my userpage I used to frequently edit wiki in the past. 10+ years ago on content relating to films if you must know. Randolph-Bourne (talk) 16:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes, we apparently do need a discussion every time someone content is added that's against policy and guidelines. Please explain why you think we should list the bye-election expenses of the NP in one particular bye-election when no other Irish political article does so; or - bearing in mind Wikipedia isn't a newspaper - why the inclusion of alleged social media abuse of an unnamed individual is warranted? There is a world of difference between 'newsworthy' and WP:DUE. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 16:39, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

If such information doesnt exist on other party pages, then maybe it should. Randolph-Bourne (talk) 16:57, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

No, it clearly shouldn't. WP:DUE. WP:10YEARTEST. WP:NOTNEWS. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 17:49, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

"Far-left"

WP:BRD is worth a read. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 10:55, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Once again you are using BRD as a fig leaf to gatekeep articles. You claimed in your initial revert that the source (Newsletter) does not use the term "far-left". The title of the article reads: "Lough Erne Resort Enniskillen: Conference for far right group The National Party was disrupted by far left protestors". You should read WP:V. Irishpolitical (talk) 11:47, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

FWIW, the text as it stands and as restored, seems reasonable to me. Two of the sources (The Newsletter and The Irish News) use the terms "far left protestors" and "far-left anti-fascist activists" respectively. The ITV News source uses the term "left-wing protesters". The current/restored text ("disrupted by a group of far-left anti-fascist protestors") therefore seems more than reasonable and supported by the refs. Guliolopez (talk) 13:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Leave the personal attacks out of it. You know how BRD works at this stage. Or you should do. A headline - written by a sub-editor - does not form the body of an article written by a journalist or other commentator and a headline by itself is not a reliable source. The only other mention of "far left" in the source was from a NP member - hypocritically talking about "far-left" violence despite the only conviction for political violence in recent years being an NP member for an assault with a weapon on an unarmed woman! - so therefore can't be used in Wiki voice. It could well be the case that so-called "antifa" just like punching Nazis, and there was nothing to indicate they are right, left, centre or far-left. You've now found a second source - the Irish News one - that does use the term "far left" - well done. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 14:43, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Up yours. Irishpolitical (talk) 20:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Civility is part of Wikipedia's code of conduct and one of its five pillars. You might do well to remember that. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 21:17, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Untitled May 2023

The National Party aren't far right, as a member I may be biased but having been a member I can know about their views and being against unrestricted immigration simply makes them right wing, not far right. The accusations of being far right stem from Justin Barret making a comment on kicking out muslims from Ireland, which he later RECANTED and was never an official party policy. Yet again, Justin attending a far right meeting also doesn't make the party far right, all the accusations of the party being far right come from ONLY the past of Justin Barret, the party itself is not far right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.203.152.75 (talk) 14:20, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Your leader quoted Hitler only a few months ago. Seems like far-right may not even be strong enough for the NP. YoungIreland (talk) 14:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

The National Party aren't Far Right. They're certainly right wing, but if anything just an extremely conservative party.

The @claims of NP being far right usually come from the fact Justin Barret attended far right meetings in Europe, ON BEHALF of a pro-life organisation, it doesn't necessarily mean that the parties meeting he attended reflects his own views, another thing is, people may bring a comment he made on muslim people, which he actually recanted thus, how is it of any importance? The National Party DESCRIBE themselves as nationalist, not ultra nationalist, not white nationalist, no far right term, just as nationalist. As a member I know that the party is a conservative party, it isn't any of this BS. Anyone trying to claim it as "far-right" are either uneducated or want to try make the party look bad. Tim121212 (talk) 14:24, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Pardon me, I am a disinterested recent changes patroller. As a self-declared member of the party, you clearly have a conflict of interest and should be proposing changes here rather than editing the article directly. Relying on what the party says about itself goes against WP:PRIMARY; if they declared themselves centrist, Wikipedia would still rely on secondary sources rather than the party itself.   –Skywatcher68 (talk) 15:24, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Read WP:PRIMARY and WP:RS (and, while you're here, read the discussions above, too - it would save us all a lot of time). We go by what reliable secondary sources say about the subject, not what the subject says about themselves. Doing the latter would be dumb. The Irish Times, Irish Independent, Examiner, Journal, and Irish Central all describe the NP as far-right. They are all reliable secondary sources. Sorry to break it to you, but a party that protests outside asylum-seekers' accommodation and has depictions of nooses at its protests isn't "just right-wing and conservative." Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 15:51, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Supporting death penalty doesn't equal far right, and you're making the protests sound bad when they're not, but I'm not really bothered debating as i know that it won't change Tim121212 (talk) 15:36, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

The person they were protesting with their nooses has not committed any crime, been charged with any crime, or been convicted of any crime, let along a capital one. We both know exactly what they were doing, and why. And it has nothing to do with the death penalty. The protests "aren't bad"? Maybe not if you're the one outside, shouting in. If you were in your accommodation, with the protestors outside, you might think otherwise. You're not bothered debating as you don't have a leg to stand on. Jog on. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 16:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Whatever about the death penalty, having a leader who quotes Hitler certainly makes a party far-right. Indeed there may even be a case for adding neo-Nazism to its ideology based on that fact alone. YoungIreland (talk) 14:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

The principles of the NP aren't inherently far right, the new leader isn't either, please look into it. Tim121212 (talk) 21:55, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi. In terms of:

• WP:VER, Wikipedia reflects the reliable/verifiable sources. Multiple such sources, including a recent one referenced by a user who implied that they were a member of the party in this edit, describe the org as "far-right".
• WP:COI, Wikipedia editors are expected to follow the related policies. As you have already declared a connection to the subject, please propose changes on this talk page, and do not add images or text (as here and as implied in your edit summary) to promote or advocate for a subject. Please also consider adding "{{UserboxCOI|National Party (Ireland, 2016)}}" to your user page.

Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 00:04, 1 September 2023 (UTC)