Talk:Neil Lennon

Could somebody edit his page to add that he's now Celtic manager after Rodgers left for Leicester? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:431:B70C:9693:8109:CB2A:6466:406 (talk) 19:03, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

The Rangers Supporters Trust employed the services of a lip reading expert who verified the claim.[6].

Would it be pointing out the obvious to say that a document, supposededly paid for by the Rangers Supporters Trust, written by someone in the employ of the Rangers Supporters Trust, hosted on a website which is dedicated to the rivals of the team of which Neil Lennon is a captain, might not be the most relaible and informed source for such a statement?

Is this still an ongoing issue? I pointed this out years ago. As far as I am aware, both Dingwall and Edgar have had their publications banned from Ibrox for sectarianism. http://sport.scotsman.com/theoldfirm/Stadium-ban-for-bigoted-Rangers.2374026.jp for evidence.

NPOV Check

"Rangers fans accused Lennon of giving sectarian abuse when he shouted Orange Bastards at the Rangers fans and management during an Old Firm match. The Rangers Supporters Trust employed the services of a lip reading expert who verified the claim.[6]. The Trust also criticised Celtic manager Martin O'Neill, who escorted Lennon off the pitch, and later claimed that Lennon had been subjected to abuse of a "racial and sectarian manner" throughout the game by Rangers fans [7]. No action was taken and very little coverage of the offence made the media."

- Rangers Supporters Trusts are not the best source of unbiased information with regards to Glasgow Celtic or their players.

- The source to 'verify' the claims of the Rangers Supporters Trust is a single PDF file created and hosted by the Rangers Supporters Trust.

- Quotes, and information relating to Martin O'Neill should be in the Martin O'Neill page, not Neil Lennons. This would be an indicator of the general NPOV of this section.

Any thoughts anyone? --McTrumpet 23:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

The incident did occur, and it was mentioned by Graham Spiers both in print and on the radio. There is now no mention of Martin O'Neil in relation to this incident in the article.

You'll need to provide a reputable, verifiable source for this. In the mean time I've removed both claims. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 08:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

The source is both reputable and verifiable. An independent lip reading expert was used. KarateKid7 01:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

A Rangers Supporters Trust is neither reputable or unbiased. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 09:17, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

An independent lip-reading witness is both reputable and unbiased.

And who was it who paid for this 'independent' report? The Rangers Supporters Trust. Indeed, the document which has been linked to is not in fact the alleged report in question, it is a 'Media Release', issued by the Rangers Supporters Trust which mentions this alleged report! Are we now saying that a single PDF document, paid for and hosted on servers paid for by the Rangers Supporters Trust, which doesn't mention either the name of the 'expert', nor in fact provides any evidence to support the claims being made, is an unbiased source which is likely to be representative of a Neutral Point of View? Oh well, as long as I can quote COTH as a source..........--TheMadTim 01:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't have a problem with a mention of the incident/alleged incident, as long as it's made clear who is making the allegation (earlier edits didn't), and I would prefer if the word "independent" was removed - if a group employs someone to back up their claim, is that person "independent"? I think readers are quite capable of reading the edit, noting that it comes from fans of Lennon's arch-rivals (note: not even from Rangers Football Club, not from the SFA or SPL, not from Strathclyde Police...), and drawing their own conclusions. An earlier edit added that the RST also criticised M O'N for escorting Lennon from the field - I added a reference (BBC, I think) to O'Neill saying that it was because he felt that Lennon had been subjected to a tirade of sectarian/racist abuse all match - felt that added a bit of, er, "context". Camillus (talk) 20:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok That settles it I will take Camillus's advice as he is the best contributor to the article and I will remove the word independent, but I do think that it is important the claim stays. I have heard Graham Spiers refer to it on both radio and television and read him mention it in the herald. --

WP:RS - 'We may not use primary sources whose information has not been made available by a reliable publisher'. --TheMadTim 03:40, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

OK chaps, I've tried to discuss this on the talk page, but some users feel it acceptable conduct to make changes contrary to Wikipedia policy, without discussion of the matter. Fair do's. --TheMadTim 00:49, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Alan Shearer

No mention of him getting a boot in his face from Alan Shearer back in '99 or sometime. Was one of the most high profile events of that season.--Koncorde 21:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Early career

Absolutley nothing on his early career. Leicester is where he really made his name. Formed a partnership with Muzzy Izzet and won 2 League Cups. This is a major 4 years in his career and is the reason he got a move to Celtic, due to his performances at Leicester. 90.212.204.30 (talk) 08:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Would agree whole heartedly with this. In fact, I would say Leicester is where he played his best football, and is under-represented this page. Perhaps a Leicester fan would like to rectify this situation with referenced sources, as his career isn't done justice here. Mattun0211 (talk) 16:01, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Neil Lennon is a poo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.69.239.188 (talk) 08:08, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Neil Lennon is a poo...yur good manager? ;)--Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 09:21, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Needs more work ...

... on his time at Leicster. I would say he was at the top of his game when he played for them. Any Fox fans out there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattun0211 (talk • contribs) 02:45, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Darcyswift, 6 March 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} <However, the investigation was an open and closed case as the alleged victim confirmed that Neil Lennon had not made any racist comments towards. This was a fictious charge made by people of below average intelligence, in a malicious attempt to besmirch Neil Lennon>

Darcyswift (talk) 23:23, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.—C45207 | Talk 00:52, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from almightybob, 20 April 2011

Problems in the personal life section:

Details regarding the parcel bombing episode have been added by DJ619 without any referencing. Not sure how he did it if the article's protected, but there you go. Some of the information can be referenced here so I support keeping some of the details in, but I cannot find anything to support the "Ulster loyalists are alleged to have done it" part. I think that paragraph should be removed per WP:BLP until a reliable source can be found to support it.

So, in template-dictated format:

Please remove "Ulster loyalists were suspected of sending them. The loyalists' constant targeting of Lennon stems from his playing and managerial spells at Celtic, who are a team with strong historical links to the Republic of Ireland; whereas Lennon is from Northern Ireland, a country both religiously and politically different from the Republic of Ireland.

The two differences are however, inter-linked."

Please add reference to preceding paragraph.

Also, sorry if I did this wrong. First edit :) almightybob (pray) 18:43, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Done Thanks, whoever took care of this :) Good to see the system works! almightybob (pray) 14:12, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

References

Edit request from 84.246.205.21, 26 April 2011

Reference 44 does no support the sentence that cites it. Although the article was penned in April, the suspect packages were intercepted on 26th March and "two days later". The paragraph suggests the packages were sent in April, and as far as I know, DeLoreans don't do the post round in Scotland. Yet.

84.246.205.21 (talk) 10:50, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

 Done Changed to March 2011 as the reference states. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 13:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Why does he keep getting attacked?

Can anyone add some background as to why he is getting sent bombs and bullets, being attacked by fans etc. I know about the Old Firm rivalry, but this type of this is out of the ordinary! Is there any known context for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.9.158 (talk) 10:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

This article on the BBC does a good job, and the article makes a reference to previous attacks in the Northern Ireland section and how was forced into retirement. GW(talk) 20:58, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Also: Sectarianism in Glasgow. GW(talk) 21:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Its because when it was all kicking off at the old firm match lennon shouted "ORANGE BASTARDS" at the rangers manager and fans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.25.27.239 (talk) 16:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Is there a reliable source to back that up? when was this supposed to have happened? was it as a player or a manager? because I've never heard of him shouting anything of the sort directly at any Rangers fans or staff. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 09:47, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

its not a reliable source, but if you watch his mouth in this clip it's the situation that has been discussed above on this page and what the IP editor is referring to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bJdlp5EWaM&feature=related

It's debatable whether he says "Orange Bastards" in that video the only clear thing is the word "Cheats!" and even if it was said, I doubt that this is the reason behind the sheer magnitude of negative attention thrown onto Lennon this past season. Most of the stuff is likly to come from the need for a personified "antihero" for these groups, similar to the Queen for Scottish and Irish nationalists and anti-royalists or Barack Obama to the extreme political right-wing in the US; groups of people generally need an actaul person to serve as "the enemy" and I think this is the best explanation for whats happening to Lennon; pseudoscientific as it may be. --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 20:16, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

SPL runner up

Why has someone put SPL runner up under manager stats? No other manager in Wikipedia gets that mention. I would remove it myself but article is protected.--2.218.240.156 (talk) 22:56, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

This user is a friend of mine and if its ok with everyone I've removed the runner up material in manager stats. There supposed to be what managers have won not what they almost won.--BadSynergy (talk) 22:59, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the assualt in detail

I've rewritten the assualt verdict paragraph, with regard to a number of Wiki areas, including WP:NPOV and WP:OR - "despite the fact" should be avoided as it implies a conclusion (that the verdict was wrong) so is WP:synthesis and also falls under WP:W2W. The paragraph was clearly implying a miscarriage of justice has been carried out and the jury had reached the wrong verdict, giving a number of different quotes. Although this is all from relibale sources, I think we have issues here with WP:balance and WP:weight and WP:OR as although on teh face of it this is a bizarre decision, the reasons for it may well be more complicated than they seem and to do with legal technicalities. I've left in the quote from Paul McBride, which I though was a good one, and also added a quote from a solicitor, that I think is quite illuminating. I understand that this is from some sort of blog, but i thought it was quite interesting and comes from an expert in their field as per WP:RS, but if people think it should be taken out that's fine by me.

I think you have to be very careful with legal cases, as we can never know for sure what went on in a jury room and the reality is that it often boils down to technicalities. For those interested, here is some interesting background thoughts from the legal profession - http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/why-did-the-jury-acquit-neil-lennon%E2%80%99s-attacker-paul-mcbride-qc-thinks-he-knows/ and https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2011/08/31/neil-lennon-was-not-assaulted-by-the-man-who-admitted-assaulting-him/ as well as the piece I have included by the solicitor Chris Ffyfe. As you can see it's pretty complicated, but after reading it about three times, I think I get the drift. It's not hard to see why there are problems if juries have to decide between the difference between “racially aggravated offences” and “offences racially aggravated”!, although as far as i can make out, the real question is over the assault charge. Mattun0211 (talk) 02:45, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

The reason why i reply to this Mattun is because i previously updated the section stating just the facts. I also have the page on my watchlist. I disagree with quotations by individual people. They seem to only be there to bulk out the section. I personally would just leave it as the facts (the man was convicted of breach of the peace but further charge of assault aggravated by religious and racial prejudice was found not proven). This could be supplemented by a sentence saying something like The media and many neutral observers disagreed with the juries verdict due to the evidence presented and testimony of the accused. (backed up by 4 or 5 sources from the media). Monkeymanman (talk) 12:03, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Would be happy enough with that as well. I'm not sure about the phrase neutral observers though as I think that's straying into WP:OR. Mattun0211 (talk) 16:30, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeh i suppose so. McBride is also hardly a neutral seeing as he is a self confessed celtic fan and previous lawyer of Lennon. Might be better as The media and some observers disagreed with the juries verdict due to the evidence presented and testimony of the accused. Monkeymanman (talk) 17:18, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I think basically what Monkeymanman has said above but in a bit more detail. Something like The media and many observers disaproved of the jury's verdict. Mainly because of the admission of assault from the accused, as well as the evidence presented. Paul McBride QC described the decision as "utterly bizarre and inexplicable."
I think saying 'some' implies that there has been approval of the verdict. I have not heard of anyone stating that they agree with the verdict yet. Adam4267 (talk) 17:27, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree Adam with everything except the selective quote from Paul McBride. I dont see the point in this except to needlessly bulk the section out. I would agree to the source from his statement being included as one of the observers. Monkeymanman (talk) 17:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

The only reason I think it should be in is that he has been quoted by several sources and that he is quite high profile, but I will leave it up to you. Adam4267 (talk) 17:58, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Don't mind about the quote, although I can see he may not be regarded as neutral so if it was included would have to be balanced out with something else. I think 'some' is ok as I think there seems to be some legal opinion, from people who would be experts in their field, that it is to simplistic to blame the jury, and there is evidence that legal technicalities may have played a significnat role. It reminds me of some of the recent terrorist cases whereby there has been a media uproar when people have walked free against what seems like very strong evidence, but lawyer commentators have argued that it's too simplistic to blame the jury given they sat through the whole trial, the legalities may be more complex than they seem and they have to be sure beyond all reasonable doubt. So its got to be carefully worded. Mattun0211 (talk) 01:21, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Mattun it is not our job to analyse the situation and try and come up with a conclusion of what has happened. We simply report what sources say. The opinion of the media is that the jury is wrong, we cannot know why the jury made the decision they did just that they made that decision. I think anything which tries give a reason for the juries decision should not be in an encyclopaedia because however experienced they cannot know, they are just trying to offer an explanation. Adam4267 (talk) 15:10, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

So i think we are in agreement over the wording as long as the selective quote is removed. Should we discuss sources or just go with what is there. I am happy to go with the ones used and supply the source with McBride's quote. Monkeymanman (talk) 16:27, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

That's fine. There is already a few sources but if you feel that more need to be added that then add them. I think 53 already covers Mcbride's qoute. Adam4267 (talk) 16:43, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Okay i have changed the article to reflect what we have agreed upon (i hope). There might be a problem in the future with the potential for another editor to complain about over referencing but i think we can discuss that when the time comes. Monkeymanman (talk) 18:18, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm happy with that as it stands, but it could probably use a bit of expansion. Maybe stating something about the fact that the incident was broadcast live on tv and saying that the man did actually make contact with Lennon as that impression isn't really given from the current text. What do you think? Adam4267 (talk) 19:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I think it's pretty good as it stands as, but maybe something along the lines of 'attempted to assault Lennon' would be better, as I think there was some contact made but he was stopped before he could do anything significant. Mattun0211 (talk) 12:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually if you re-read the section it doesn't make sense.

"On 11 May 2011 during a match in Edinburgh against Hearts, a supporter was found guilty of a breach of the peace after running into the technical area and shouting and swearing at Lennon.[49] A further charge of assault aggravated by religious and racial prejudice was found not proven. The media and many observers disaproved of the jury's verdict. Mainly because of the admission of assault from the accused, as well as the evidence presented.[49][50][51][52][53][54][51][55]"

The supporter wasn't tried on the day of the match. Why don't we say

"On 11 May 2011 during a match in Edinburgh against Hearts, a supporter ran onto the pitch and attempted to attack Lennon. He was later found guilty of breach of the peace ..." Although maybe a proper description of the attack would be better than attempted attack/assault; "The supporter jumped at Lennon and tried to grab him round the back of the neck." Something like that. Adam4267 (talk) 15:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I have altered what was written to clarify the trial conclusion date and the date of the incident. I disagree with vast explanations of the incident, what is there will suffice. We can get other opinions if you want. Monkeymanman (talk) 22:22, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Personally I think attempted assualt would be better, as there was physical contact with Lennon, which you wouldn't realise from how its written at the moment. It also sits a little awkwardely with the fact that he admitted assault, albeit as part of an effective plea bargain. There's certainly an argument to say it was an assault, but I think that attempted assault deals with the fact that he slipped/was apprehended before anything really happened. The actual charge does go into detail on this but is incredibly long-winded. I would say attempted assault covers all the bases. Mattun0211 (talk) 11:08, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Reference 19 - United-Ireland football team.

Are there any other sources for the claim that Lennon said he wanted to play for an All-Ireland football team (like the All-Ireland rugby team)? Looks like hearsay, rather than evidence.

Reason for International Career retirement

The main reason Neil Lennon retired in August 2002 from playing internationally was because of a death threat received as a consequence of being made captain of the Northern Ireland soccer team while a Glasgow Celtic player. In March 2001 Neil Lennon then being a Glasgow Celtic player had to endure alot of booing from a section of the Northern Ireland fans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monnigblower (talk • contribs) 01:07, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

References

Reference 30 - Crystal Palace player-manager role

Although he was also linked with a move to Crystal Palace in a player-manager role in the summer of 2006,[30]

Should read

Although he was also linked with a move to Crystal Palace in a player-coach role in the summer of 2006,[30]

The link to the BBC confirms that Palace already had a manager, and would be attempting to sign Lennon as he'd already worked with Peter Taylor before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.30.124.15 (talk) 14:35, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: www.insideworldsoccer.com/2013/05/neil-lennon-gives-league-medal-to-fan-kathleen-mcgovern.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa (talk) 02:34, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2017

Michaelahart30 (talk) 16:53, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Neil lennon is now the manager of Scottish premiership side Hibernian FC, they are no longer in the Scottish championship after winning the championship last year.

No need to change Scottish championship to Scottish premiership

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) 17:20, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

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Edit request: Typo

Hi, I think in the sentence "Lennon made his international debut for Northern Ireland on 11 June 1994 when he come on as a substitute in a friendly against Mexico in Miami." it should be written that "he came" (in the past tense). Can someone allowed to modify the article do this change? --Leo.hoerter (talk) 18:50, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2020

It says Neil Lennon lost twice in his last league season with Celtic in 2014. He only lost once. Source is the SPFL archive. SJRussell23 (talk) 18:13, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please link that source so we don't have to hunt for it and format it properly using appropriate templates such as {{cite web}}. Thanks, RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 20:13, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Neil Lennon

Can Someone please chance Neil Lennon's profile picture to a more recent image. NL has also drawn 13 games not 14 :) Glasgow Celtic Is My Passion I Declare (talk) 14:48, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2023

Hi there, I just wanted to ask if you could remove that god awful picture of Neil alennon. Thanks! NeilLennonFan (talk) 22:05, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. -Lemonaka‎ 04:21, 6 June 2023 (UTC)