Talk:New Cairo

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There is an advertisement on this page. Nhgrrl (talk) 12:00, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Seems fixed now. -- OlEnglish ^(Talk) 07:58, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps an advertisement but definitely partially truth. While 5 degrees are definitely too much for most cases it could me really somewhat healthier - very low humidity means that perceived temperature is lower than it really is outside. Also its location - it could be more than 300m higher than downtown of Cairo which means at least two degrees on average down. While maxima temperatures could be quite high [definitely close to 33-36 degrees in high summer], its morning minima during whole year could be relatively low and thus bearable than in the downtown. DE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.79.82.6 (talk) 10:07, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

The 'strange' weather described in the article is normal in almost every desert. --عبد المؤمن (talk) 15:50, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

The article is written in a promotional style. I remember residents told me that they feel less safe because of the isolation at New Cairo and there are more incidents of theft on their way from Cairo to New Cairo. Also the extremely exaggerated claim of the cooler weather is a lie. It can't be cooler than 2 degree Celsius from the low lying Cairo. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 23:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Africa Destubathon

I destubbed this article during Africa Destubathon.Level C (talk) 03:24, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Population figure

Hi Mhnkrk and Ypedia1, I see that you are disputing each other's figures for the population. First, please don't revert or repeat your edits again (in other words, don't edit war), please discuss on this talk page instead.

So far, it's not clear to me if any of the numbers are clearly supported:

• Prior to recent changes (see this version), the population in the infobox was 498,343, but unsourced.
• Ypedia1, you cited the official census body, CAPMAS, but it's not clear where the numbers are coming from exactly. You cited 297,387 here, citing this source, then 318,092 here, citing this source. However, I don't see either of those numbers directly at either source. Please explain exactly how you arrived at those numbers.
• Mhnkrk, you cited this source for 1.5 million, but that does seem potentially high and it's not entirely clear that the source is reliable. This is clearly a rounded number and there is no context provided at the source itself about how this number was counted, what kind of estimate it represents, or at what time it was counted. A census source, or a scholarly source, is indeed usually better. Can you find some details about this number or find a clearer/better source?
• I also see that Wikiuser552 recently added a population figure of 313,139 here, but cited no source. Wikiuser552, please indicate your source for this number, if there is one.

Please remember that all content on Wikipedia must be directly verifiable through reliable sources, and that no original research is acceptable (Wikipedia:No original research). If you had to make personal decisions and calculations to arrive at a number, this is most likely inadmissible on Wikipedia. Likewise, just finding a web page on the internet with some number is often not good enough, even if it looks "official"; it must be clear that the source is reliable for this information.

Note: Ypedia1 asked me on my talk page to look at this, but it's not up to me to decide the issue; I'm just opening the discussion. As I said above, the normal process for disagreements is to discuss on the talk page and try to reach a consensus. If it can't be resolved here, than either of you can pursue further dispute resolution steps listed at WP:SEEKHELP. R Prazeres (talk) 20:07, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi R Prazeres,thanks for responding to the call to moderate.

This is exactly why I requested this and that is to avoid an editing war. I understand how many figures in Egypt can be contradictory even from official sources, and this is a good opportunity to clarify census figures and their sources, epecially that a number of sites claim to have figures, though they are either secondary estimates from CAPMAS, or making up their own. The CAPMAS January 2023 population is an estimate based on growth rates from the 2017 census. For New Cairo it is the three qisms of al-Qahira al-Gadida: al-Tagamu' al-Khamis, al-Tagammu' al-Awwal and al-Qattamia that you can find on pages 10-11 in the pdf [1] For the 2017 census the site must be queried each time: Statistics and analysis > Population > 2017 Data > Gender >Statistical Tables > and then choice by location. Despite the complexity, its easier to deal with than the census pdfs on the CAPMAS site, for example New Cairo's figures on p25 in the pdf . I hope this clarifies the case for Mhnkrk Ypedia1 (talk) 21:31, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

The only way this might be acceptable, in my opinion, is if you include an explanatory footnote that clearly explains this, so readers (and future editors) know exactly where the number comes from. Normally we can't cite numbers that aren't visible in the source. The footnote should say that this is the added total of the populations of three qisms and provide the numbers for each qism individually. There should also be a source that verifies these three qisms are what is considered "New Cairo"; regardless of whether it seems obvious to you, it's not obvious to readers. Since the 2017 census interactive needs to be queried in a very specific way, it seems better to cite the pdf documents; in the citation, you can include the relevant page number(s) and/or the location in the document (there should be a "location" parameter or something similar in the citation template, you can use it to write in the names of the sections or headings where the numbers are found). R Prazeres (talk) 22:45, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree, there could be more explanation in the footnotes. For New Cairo, the qisms are all suffixed by al-qahira al-gadida whether in the census or the projections, so there's no need for other sources. Ypedia1 (talk) 10:51, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

If that's clear in the source that's cited, then that sounds fine. And thanks Wikiuser552 for your input (below). R Prazeres (talk) 16:31, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi R Prazeres.

My source for my edit on this page was [2]. However, I agree with Ypedia1's edit because citypopulation.de gets all its figures about Egypt from CAPMAS anyway. Wikiuser552 (talk) 07:26, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Wording in lead

@154.176.154.163. Per Wikipedia policy, please discuss your disagreement here instead of edit-warring, as I already pointed out to you. (See also WP:BRD.) New Cairo is commonly described as a "satellite city", per various reliable sources, e.g.: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]. The fact that it also practically serves as a suburb doesn't change this. Alternatively, both words could be mentioned, if that helps convey a better picture for readers. But "suburb" on its own has different connotations which are likely to be insufficient in this case. R Prazeres (talk) 05:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Saying it is a satellite city gives the false idea of it being a different city from cairo and any local resident ( me for example) knows this is not true our work and schools are usually in cairo because new cairo is part of cairo. For example Madeenet Nasr a district in cairo is literally just across the ring road from new cairo 154.176.154.163 (talk) 21:29, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

The term does not mean a "different city", it means a settlement with a limited level of self-sufficiency built near a major city on which it is dependent; see for example [8]. (The poorly-sourced satellite city article probably needs revision to reflect this too.) That is similar to but not the same as a suburb, but as I said above, I have no problem with adding "suburb" in addition to "satellite city", if that helps.

If New Cairo is also an official "district" of some kind, as you claim here, please provide a reliable source that says so. As the article currently explains, it is made up of three smaller wards and is not an administrative entity of its own. Wikipedia is based on what reliable sources say, not on personal opinion or perception. I've provided examples of those sources above. R Prazeres (talk) 21:48, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Firstly even the new cairo Wikipedia page says that this page is for the suburb new cairo not the new capital.

Secondly u said that new cairo is satellite city which means as u said ("a settlement with a limited level of self-sufficiency built near a major city on which it is dependent ") so u say new cairo is a city dependent on cairo but here i can prove that new cairo has itself the Cairo security headquarters which would mean that cairo is the one dependent on New Cairo not the other way around?? No because simply New Cairo is part of Cairo and is treated as a district of cairo by both the locals and the government.

There is other examples of things that all cairo residents depend on that are now in new cairo but i don't know their names in English for example( أكاديمية الشرطة ،مجمع المحاكم، ارض المعارض).

Thirdly to enter new cairo from cairo you don't pay any tolls money and u don't pass any gates but for example to enter Madinty or Badr City you pay way tolls as if you are leaving cairo.El Shourouk might be considered a satellite city but not new cairo with literally few metres between it and the 10th district of Madinet Nasr. 154.176.154.163 (talk) 03:04, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

You still don't seem to understand what the term even means. And I repeat: Wikipedia is based on reliable sources. If you refuse to base your discussion on these sources, then you still haven't provided a valid reason to remove the former wording.

You also still haven't reverted your edit-warring, as I asked you here. Please do that. R Prazeres (talk) 03:16, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

The sources u provided are very limited give me any egyptian official sources that says it is a satellite city. Also Helwan for example is similar case and it is said to be a district and the examples of satellite cities are not like the case in new cairo. You provide any egyptian official sources calling it a satellite city not just a book that doesn't represent anything official 154.176.154.163 (talk) 03:43, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Satellite city is not an "official" designation, it's a description. If you openly refuse to accept reliable sources for no reason and refuse to revert your edit-warring, then I don't see anything else to say. I will restore the pre-edit-war version of the article, again. Other editors are free to comment here and work towards a new consensus, if needed. R Prazeres (talk) 04:01, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

The sources u provided are not reliable sources it seems like u are saying satellite city based on ur opinion i have said many examples to prove it is not and u just ignored them and didn't reply. The term satellite city isn't common and gives the false idea and there is not one official source that say it is a satellite city . 154.176.154.163 (talk) 12:14, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Egyptian Cairene and architect here. I understand @ 154.176.154.163's view that its not an independent city, and agree that the terminology is confusing, however, based on the Arabic decree establishing it it is called Madinet al-Qahira al-Gadida, where madina in Arabic is used for both town, and city. It was established as a satellite city to Cairo, and administratively falls under the joint jurisdiction of the New Urban Communities Authority (NUCA) and Cairo Governorate as do all 'new cities': Badr, Shorouk, 15 May, New Capital included. So it is independent of Cairo city (it is not considered a Cairo neighbourhood حي) because it has a NUCA agency جهاز تنمية القاهرة الجديدة and agency head رئيس جهاز, though has police wards أقسام that are part of Cairo governorate, and not the city of Cairo. Therefore, I am of the opinion that this distinction is served well by the label 'satellite city', while calling it satellite city/district may also help. However, calling it a district alone is not accurate given the complicated status, and the fact it is not an official district (see Cairo gov page on the Eastern area http://cairo.gov.eg/ar/Pages/Region.aspx?ReID=1 where only New Cairo qisms are shown and not a district, and in the written description says تتكون من 9 أحياء that do not inlcude New Cairo, Shorouk, and Badr.) Ypedia1 (talk) 05:03, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional information, Ypedia1, that's helpful. And as I mentioned above, nothing stops us from adding a bit more detail to the intro if it helps to clarify, while preserving already sourced/verifiable information. R Prazeres (talk) 05:25, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

This edit by Mhnkrk should help to clarify for everyone, I hope. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 02:54, 8 January 2024 (UTC)