Talk:New wave music in Yugoslavia

Lots of cleanup needed, distorted historical facts etc.

I strongly suggest that every reference to the former Eastern Bloc should be immediatly removed from the article because Tito's Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was NOT an eastern Bloc country since the Tito-Stalin split back in 1948. Yugoslavia developed a socialist system which was completely independent of Moscow and which was quite opened to the rest of the world in every aspect especially to the West (who supported Yugoslavia to some extent as a "buffer zone" between the West and the Eastern Bloc).
It is not suprising that such productive musical scenes/movements existed in Yugoslavia at the time, cause Yugoslav citizens enjoyed much more personal freedoms than the people from the eastern bloc: for example Western music, movies and fashion were allowed and sold freely, Yugoslavs had a freedom of movement so they could travel both to the western and the eastern countries (for many countries without any need for visa) so they could live, work and study abroad and bring some fresh new ideas back. Yugoslavia had also a developed tourism especially on the Adriatic coast which attracted foreign tourist and thus arrival of novelties from the West.
Also Im not sure about the statement in the text that "hippies were considered as a threat"(??!), if the punk band "Pankrti" who were very "radical" for those times could make albums and gigs freely without any (or much) problems, if movies such as the cult punk-new wave movie "decko koji obecava" have been made (quite shocking film even for today's standards!) then hippies certainly were not a threat of any kind nor that were considered as such. Rocknroll in general was socialy accepted thing in ex-Yugoslavia, you could heear it from children's TV programs (The Vranesevic brothers from Laboratorija zvuka were making chikldren program music) and Bjelo Dugme even played a gig for Tito! (source: interview of Zeljko Bebek, during the recent 'comeback' tour of the band Bjelo Dugme)
And most impiortant, it is not mentioned that "novi val" or "novi talas" (in croatian and serbian respectively) were nothing else but Yugoslav New Wave (not "something similar to new wave" but they WERE new wave, of course with local Yugoslav characyteristics (or should I say 'flavour').
It is true that the "communist party" (it was not called Communist party as this was NOT USSR or China, but the name was The Alliance of the Communists of Yugoslavia- Savez Komunista Jugoslavije) and their youth organisation were helping organising concerts, festivals, parties, exhibitions, magazines etc. that certainly doesnt mean that all this was a state-orchestrated youth movement "to keep the youth under control", absolutely not, these bands were highly artistic and productive. The aim of the authorities was actually to present the country as 'democratic' to the rest of the world: Azra sang freely and openly about the attrocities of the Military dictatorship in then Eastern Bloc's Poland under Jaruzelski (song "Poljska u mome srcu"), "Pankrti" (the Slovenian "Sex pistols") although "radical & chaotic" for those days could freely publish records, play tours without (too much) problems, some really "avanguarde" movies were made in those days such as the punk/new wave classic "decko koji obecava" (shocking film even for today's standards) etc.
And one more thing: I dont understand why "Disciplina..." and "Ekaterina.." are mentioned here. Undoubtely cult Yugoslav bands and undoubtely their respective frontmen: Koja and Milan WERE in the Yugoslav New Wave but that was in the band Sharlo Akrobata. I would say "Disciplina Kichme" and "Ekaterina Velika" came after the New wave faded and "Sharlo" splitted, i dont think i would consider those two bands as new wave really.--Vbb-sk-mk 05:21, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

BTW as an individual more-less well aquainted with the Yugoslav new wave, Im interested about what "Socialist avanguard" the author of the article is talking about? If that's a refference to the cult video by "Idoli" - Maljchiki, that's an intentional parody of soc-realism. Anyway, this article needs a GOOD AND radical CLEANING.--Vbb-sk-mk 06:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

To the Bosnia & Herzegovina wikipedians, plz check this out, it's a mistake

To the Bosnian & Herzegovinian wikipedians: With all my respect to you, it's very good that you have tried to contribute to this article, but I think some things are quite wrong here.

For a start: why "Indeksi"? This an article tributed solely to the New Wave music in Yugoslavia, not generaly about the Rocknroll scene in Yugoslavia. Other music styles like hard rock, heavy metal, 1960s, 1970s rock and so on of course do not belong here. Its not up to my personal preferences, dont get me wrong, but they just do not fit in here by any standards. "Indeksi" can be described as 'somewhat' "Yugoslav Beatles" (ok,sorry it is not a 100% accurate description, they had different phases during their existence). Anyway, we can agree it's mostly what we can describe as 1960s and 1970s "sound". Their very initial and I should say less known phase was influenced by the The Shadows (with those 'deep' Hank Marvin type of solos), then they were influenced by The Beatles (their cover version of "Nowhere Man" for instance- "Jednom smo se svadjali, drugi puta ljubili, a ponekad mislili..." and so on, I hope u know these lyrics, just a hint) and later they went more and more "experimental" and in some cases even "psychedelic" (you know those, should I call them "Deep Purple" type of old keyboard solos, long guitar solos, studio experiments probably inspired by "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Heart Club Band" with open-reel tapes played backwards or something and so on). They have also participated in various pop festivals accompained by orchestras singing somewhat pop type of tunes (I mean "pop" for the standards of THOSE days, not Britney Spears of course). I like them, they are undoubtely a great band, but still, they definetly DO NOT belong in this particular article and it would just confuse the readers. Please let me remove them.

About the other bands: Crvena Jabuka can be hardly called a New wave band too (they did start as a PUNK band really, they were called "Ozbiljno pitanje" or maybe just some of its members were involved in that) but anyway, "Crvena Jabuka" itself was definetly a mid 1980s teenage pop-rock band (with some folk influences here & there like "Dirlija" etc.). Then, Zabranjeno Pushenje belong to the authentic Sarajevo New Primitives movement (since the very first album "Das ist Walther" where they have the lyrics "New primitives all over Bash-Charshija"). I doubt if you can put them in a "same basket" with the bands from the "Paket Aranzman" compilation. Undoubtely, the early "Pushenje" were INFLUENCED by the NEW WAVE and PUNK rock, no discussions about that, but still, they are something else, something genuinely "Sarajevian". you cannot just put them in a same basket as Idoli, c'mon. Same with the early Plavi Orkestar led by the manager Muharem MCLaren who were some weird version of Sarajevian crazy folk-punk-pop, still they do not really belong to the bands presented in this article. Also I don't know where Elvis J. Kurtovic and his Meteors should be placed. "New Primitvies" seems like a best choice, undoubtely he was an important part of all that. From the Sarajevo bands, Bijelo Dugme have their new wave album "Dozivjeti stotu" with the famous songs like "Dozivjeti Stotu" and "Svi marsh na ples" and I can smell some "popy" traces of New Wave on the FIRST album of Valentino. I mean only their very early phase with songs like "Pazi da ne pokvaris modernu frizuru" or "Randevu" (that song when that guy is looking for a girl in a newspaper add). So, "suma summarum" Indeksi should be definetly removed (unless you can provide some good explanation why to keep them), then probably Crvena Jabuka are next to go out and partially there's a reason for Plavi Orkestar to be removed.

Also I highly recommend that Ekatarina and Disciplina should be removed too from the band's list (they can be mentioned in the text like they already are). They came AFTER the new wave, when the whole thing started to fade. Undoubtely they wouldn't exist without the new wave, but still they are something else that came afterwards.

Please DO let me know about your opinion.--Vbb-sk-mk 06:01, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

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Early Yugoslav Punk bands

Regarding their inclusion: the article says:

As its counterparts- The British and the US New Wave, from which the main influences came from, the Yugoslav scene was also closely related to Punk rock, Ska, Reggae, Two Tone, Power pop, Mod Revival etc. Its important to note that some of its acts are also counted as belonging to the Yugoslav Punk scene which already existed prior to the New Wave. Such artists were labeled as both punk rock and new wave (the term "new wave" was initially interchangeable with "punk").

so I think it's fair to include bands Pekinška patka and Pankrti in the bands list. If you want to be complete New Wave purist, then Paraf, Termiti, Mrtvi kanal and Petar i zli vuci would also have to go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.18.143 (talk) 22:03, 25 December 2007 (UTC)