Talk:Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Abbatoir Blues Live Album

Today sees the release of a live double CD and double DVD of the Abbatoir Blues tour. Does it get into the Discography? I'm not sure exactly what the rules are. Codu (t)⁄(c) •  12:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot 21:10, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Black Flag

Any reason why these are in the 'associated acts' bit? I can't think why they should be. Dancarney (talk) 09:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed it. N.C. hung out with Henry Rollins some, but that doesn't qualify within the context of his long career that has seen him associated with a number of acts more closely. --Stomme (talk) 22:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

A few changes to dates and members

I've changed the band's formation date to 1983 (since their first show was 31/12/83,) and attempted to do a full chronology of band member involvement on a separate page. My sources are cited. Please correct me where appropriate. Happy birthday Nick. Colinclarksmith (talk) 00:30, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Other Bad Seeds

Someone really should mention that there was already a band called the bad seeds in the 60s.

I agree. It appears to be easy to confuse Nick Cave's group with The Seeds (band), a noteworthy group from the 60s. How could there not be a connection? Couldn't the earlier one have inspired the latter? 05:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.177.27.33 (talk)
Sure--but I think it's more likely that the name was inspired by a. the simple expression in English (just think of the noise they made, and before that, the noise produced by the Birthday Party), and b. the novel The Bad Seed by William March, which also became a movie. Drmies (talk) 05:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, two '60s bands have similar names - 'TheBadSeeds' (apparently always written as such - [1]), an American garage rock band from the 1960s that don't appear to me to be noteworthy enough to warrant a Wikipedia article, and the above-mentioned band The Seeds. I agree with Drmies - I don't believe there to be a connection between Cave's Bad Seeds and either of these '60s groups. Nonetheless, it might serve this article to have a disclaimer at its head, noting these other groups, as well as the novel, and complete with redirects. I'll install it in a few days if no one objects. Colinclarksmith (talk) 15:17, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good to me, thanks. BTW, William March is an excellent writer--check out his Company K. Drmies (talk) 15:36, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I'd very much like to, thanks for the tip. Colinclarksmith (talk) 23:32, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Dig Lazarus Dig in regards to Biblical illusion

Dig Lazarus Dig - removed line ", inspired by the Biblical story of the resurrection of Lazarus of Bethany by Jesus Christ" as this reads as a Christian intrusion - neither the album nor the title song are about the New Testament event, nor do they suggestion inspiration, as much as a popular play on the concept, rather than event. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.76.94 (talk) 13:05, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The album was literally inspired by the New Testament story of Lazarus of Bethany - this is directly what Cave (who is a Christian) is referring to, albeit with modern reference. See the following interviews - NPR, local press. I'm going to go ahead and reinstate the line : ) Colinclarksmith (talk) 14:49, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

"First Double Album"

I removed the remark about Abbatoir Blues being the first double album. It would even be only partially accurate to describe it as their first two cd album, as Nick Cave had said that each disc was very much a separate album. Anyway, every album after Let Love In were double albums as far as length was concerned and vinyl versions of No More Shall We Part and Nocturama were both two LP. Abbatoir Blues and Lyre of Orpheus would both take up only a single vinyl LP each, and if they were a few minutes shorter could have fit onto a single CD. 209.136.161.135 (talk) 15:49, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough :) Colinclarksmith (talk) 16:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Push The Sky Away and its musical influences

I just wanted to say, that there is a very interesting reference in a German review of PTSA I have just read. The reviewer says that Cave and Ellis are quoting Matt Howden, aka Sieben, a Neofolk-musician. Maybe someone could add it to the PTSA-section. Here is the link: http://www.cdstarts.de/kritiken/111285-Nick-Cave-Push-The-Sky-Away.html Quote: Nick Cave erweitert hier anhand von Elementen des Neo-Folk abermals seine Post-Punk-Vergangenheit mit einem verwandten Genre und zitiert einen Musiker wie Matt Howden (vergleiche dessen Album „Sex And Wildflowers“) ohne sich von seiner eigenen Identität zu lösen.

In English: Nick Cave adds elements of Neo-Folk to his Post-Punk-past and quotes a musician like Matt Howden (compare his album "Sex And Wildflowers") without remoting himself from his own (musical) identity.

As you can see, I am a wiki-noob, ut I find this discovery interesting and amazing. Look for the reference in YouTube! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.201.73.188 (talk) 23:15, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Ed Keupper

I think, that Mr. Keupper left the band a few days ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.168.0.118 (talk) 15:32, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised. Any sources on that? Colinclarksmith (talk) 17:17, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Kuepper is back in for 2013 tour. Adamson is playing drums in place of Wydler, not guitar in place of Harvey. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.125.207.43 (talk) 01:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

PTSA Credits

Do Savage and Sclavunos appear on this album? The video that accompanies the album on iTunes shows only Cave, Ellis, Casey and Wydler in the studio with Nick Launay. Since Savage was absent for "Dig" as well, should he not be listed only as a touring member, if he misses another studio outing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.30.115.101 (talk) 14:16, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Sclavunos is on the recording (and in the video). As for Savage, I think we need to defer to the band's own self-identification, which has Savage as a full-time member, regardless of whether or not he is on the new record (and I don't think he is). CCS81 (talk) 15:26, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
Curious as to where Sclavunos is in the video? I watched it twice and didn't see him either. Where does the band self-identify that Savage is a full-time member? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.125.207.43 (talk) 23:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
At nickcave.com, and through other official outlets (e.g., press releases, their official Twitter and Facebook accounts and whatnot.) I will look into it again, but last I checked he was considered a full-fledged member despite apparently only touring. CCS81 (talk) 00:39, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Refimprove tag

A tag calling for more in-text references was added to the article. Please identify specific passages that seem to need references, and I will try to reference them. CCS81 (talk) 00:40, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

No problem. I will also look for more citations. I am also trying to develop the Anita Lane article, so any help with that would also be worthwhile.--Soulparadox (talk) 00:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Tone

The tone of the Lead section read more like a fan page than an encyclopedia article, so I have completed a revision. I will look at the remainder of the article in regard to this issue.--Soulparadox (talk) 01:00, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Too many citations needed?

I think that too many unnecessary citations are requested. For example, in the "Formation and early releases (1983–1985)" it says "Cave's longtime girlfriend Anita Lane was credited as a lyricist on the band's debut album.[citation needed] ". Well, that's self-evident. It states she is credited on the album. There's the source right there, the album itself. Similarly, it next says "... were later renamed Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds in May 1984, in reference to the final Birthday Party EP The Bad Seed.[citation needed] " Again, self-evident. No need for a citation here.

Next, in the section "Relocation to Germany and stylistic evolution (1985–1989)" it states " ... Your Funeral, My Trial, which coincided with Adamson's departure.[citation needed] ". Again, this either did or didn't happen (it did). It doesn't need a citation, as it won't ever be disputed, and doesn't therefore need to be proved by a reference.

In the section "Growing success (1989–1997)" it says "During the promotional tour for the album, American percussionist and drummer Jim Sclavunos joined the group.[citation needed]" For the same reason stated above, this is unnecessary.

Probably the most ridiculous request is this: "In 1996 the band released Murder Ballads ... Centered on the subject of murder,[citation needed]" Really? You don't say? Isn't the title a bit of a giveaway?

There are more, but there's no need to detail every single one. Some still are relevant, such as the claims for "best-selling album to date" etc, but I do think they need to be looked at a bit more carefully. MrGraphis (talk) 20:10, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

The point of these tags (from memory, I think I inserted them) is that facts are being presented but are not backed up by references—the stating of a fact does not automatically make the information true. For example, while it may be written in this article that Lane is credited on the album as a lyricist, how does a reader in the developing nation of Nigeria know that this is true? I could also add that Lane is credited on the album with manufacturing all of the studio equipment used for the recording process, but does that make it true? There are two issues here: The importance of referencing stated facts and remembering that Wikipedia was created as a global resource (most Internet users are not in Western nations, where Cave may be most well known).
Therefore, how do we know that Adamson actually departed the band at the time that the article states? How does the greater public know that Sclavunos did actually join the group during a promotional tour? Sure, the album is entitled "Murder Ballads", but for someone who has never heard the album and will never be able to obtain a copy, how can they be sure that the audio content centers on the subject of murder? There is no rule stating that artists must choose album names that reflect the subject matter of the songs therein contained.
I am willing to accept that I am mistaken, so please let me know what I have not taken into account and I will amend the tags that I inserted. Regards, --Soulparadox (talk) 08:57, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

2014 U.S. Tour Members

Has anyone seen official information about the touring band for the 2014 tour? The promotional materials readily available picture Cave, Adamson, Ellis, Casey and Sclavunos (Grinderman + Adamson) . . . no Savage, no Wydler, no additional guitarist. Curious to see whether Adamson's return sparks a retreat to the small combo days of yore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.170.170.76 (talk) 23:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

George Vjectica and Conway Savage are in the band for the 2014 U.S. Tour. This page and the members page need to be updated to reflect that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.170.137.231 (talk) 20:40, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

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No More Shall We Part misquote

The section Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds#Further musical refinement; Bargeld's departure (1997–2005) includes a quote from an Allmusic review purporting to be about the No More Shall We Part album. But if you actually read the review, the quote is about The Boatman's Call. Also, the article quotes a passage from the review stating that the work "is at risk of devolving "into schmaltz"". Actually there is no such passage in the review. The same errors appear in the article on No More Shall We Part. --Viennese Waltz 07:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

The quote was not found on any 2012 archive.org captures of the supposed All Music source page, so if it ever existed at all, it wasn't for long. I deleted the quote from the No More Shall We Part page as well. Cheers Rpm bln (talk) 09:33, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
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