Talk:Nintendo Entertainment System/Archive 4

Uncited Statements

While reading through this article I counted thirteen statements in need of citation. A featured article should not contain that many uncited statements. There are two possible solutions to this problem. Either find sources for the statements in need of citation, or remove the statements from the article entirely. --CP 61 23:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I just removed the unsourced statements from the article, though I'm not really sure if this should be a Featured Article anymore. The article could use a lot more references (the Wii article has like more than 90), and one section needs to be converted to prose. I wish I could help more, but I'm not too familiar with the subject material. My apologies. Cat's Tuxedo 23:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't know enough about the subject material to help, but you know enough to remove random content? Anyway, I'm copying the deleted statements here so they can be re-added once someone finds sources:

• The Nintendo Family Computer (Famicom) was slow to gather momentum; during its first year, many criticized the system as unreliable, prone to programming errors and rampant freezing.

  (Kent or Sheff, or whatever source is used for the very next sentence in the article) (found in Kent)

• (called the Sega Genesis in North America because of trademark issues)

  I found a good reference and added it to Mega Drive, but on further reflection there is no need to mention "because of trademark issues" here. The rest is obvious, so I've re-added it. Anomie 16:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

• Blowing on the cartridge connectors was, in most cases, no better than removing and reinserting the cartridge, and tended to increase the rate of oxidation resulting in browning of the printed circuit board, while slapping the side of the system after inserting the cartridge could potentially damage the console.

  (The hitting should be obvious; not so sure about the oxidation)

• Nintendo combined this with a marketing campaign introducing the Nintendo Seal of Quality. Commercials featured a purple-robed wizard instructing consumers that the Nintendo Seal of Quality was the only assurance that a game was any good—and, by implication, that any game without the Seal of Quality was bad. In reality, the seal meant that the developer had paid the license fee.
  
  The business side of this was that game developers were now forced to pay a license fee to Nintendo, to submit to Nintendo’s quality assurance process, to buy developer kits from Nintendo, and to utilize Nintendo as the manufacturer for all cartridges and packaging. Nintendo tested and manufactured all games at its own facilities (either for part of the fee or for an additional cost), reserved the right to dictate pricing, censored material it believed to be unacceptable, decided how many cartridges of each game it would manufacture, and placed limits on how many titles it would permit a publisher to produce over a given time span (five per year). This last restriction led several publishers to establish or utilize subsidiaries to circumvent Nintendo’s policies (examples including Konami’s subsidiary Ultra, and Acclaim Entertainment’s subsidiary LJN).
  
  These practices were intended not only to keep developers on a short leash, but also to manipulate the market itself: in 1988, Nintendo started orchestrating intentional game shortages in order to increase consumer demand. Referred as "inventory management" by Nintendo of America public relations executive Peter Main, Nintendo would refuse to fill all retailer orders. Retailers, many of whom derived a large percentage of their profit from sales of Nintendo-based hardware and software (at one point, Toys "R" Us reported 17% of its sales and 22% of its profits were from Nintendo merchandise), could do little to stop these practices. In 1988, over 33 million NES cartridges were sold in the United States, but estimates suggest that the realistic demand was closer to 45 million.

  (Kent or Sheff, except maybe the "In reality..." and the statement that it was orchestrated rather than that orchestration was alleged)

• Although successful in its suit against Tengen, Nintendo’s overall track record at suing unlicensed developers was mixed: the case of Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. was found in favor of Galoob and its Game Genie device, for instance. Most unlicensed developers were eventually forced out of business or out of production by legal fees and court costs for extended lawsuits brought by Nintendo against the companies. One notable exception was Color Dreams, who produced Christian video games under the subsidiary name Wisdom Tree. This operation was never sued by Nintendo.

  (Kent or Sheff)

• As the NES fades into memory, many such systems have adopted case designs which mimic more recent game consoles. NES clones resembling the Sega Genesis, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System, and even more recent systems like the Nintendo GameCube, the Sony PlayStation 2 and the Microsoft Xbox have been produced.

  (Reviews would be good, or primary sources would be acceptable because all we need here is proof-of-existence of famiclones resembling the named consoles)

• often resulting in poor sound quality.

  (this one is probably bogus)

As for the "lack" of references, the article was featured at a time when inline references were not required; I suspect much of the above can be found in the references used then. I know much of it can also be found in Kent (2001) or Sheff (1993). Anomie 13:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

"NES Files"

Be sure to check out this user. The website he is trying to promote is not exactly legit. --blm07 17:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Legit? Dkalweit (talk) 13:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

No, it is not. It is a spam link and the site appears to host ROMS, something that is grossly against the external links policy.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 19:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Dkalweit: For a statement to be "libel", do note that the statement must be untrue. "Legit" means "Accordant with law or with established legal forms and requirements; lawful", which a site distributing commercial ROMs in violation of copyright law is not, so the statement that the site is not legit is true. Such a site is also completely against Wikipedia's copyright policy and the guideline on external links. I also suggest you read WP:COI, as your only purpose here seems to be to promote that site. Thank you. Anomie⚔ 18:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Sound chip info?

I notice that under the sound subsection there is information about the capabilities of the onboard sound chip, but not the make/model of it. I think this information needs to be added, as the make and model of the CPU and PPU is noted. Firthy (talk) 21:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Eastern European Consoles

The article says that the NES was called Pegasus when it was released in Eastern Europe (at least Poland). If you look at the Polish Wikipedia you can find an article on Pegasus. I don't think this was an official Nintendo release but a clone, like the Dendy. Is this assumtion correct? If it is please remove this information from "Regional Differences" and put it with "Harware Clones".--Fantastic fred (talk) 16:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I wrote a mail to the webmaster of pegasus-gry.com and he said that Pegasus was a "cheap falsification" of the NES which got the same games as the original console. He doesn't know anymore if the real NES was officially sold in Poland, but it was easy to buy a "Pegasus". -85.180.225.218 (talk) 23:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I changed it in the article. -92.227.75.51 (talk) 12:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

How many NES's are left and how much is a NES worth today?

I have had my NES for many years and it works 100% and I don't play it anymore and I want to sell it and I wanted to know how much I could sell it for. ie. If NES's are hard to find and it is like acollectable it would be worth a lot. --74.170.232.205 (talk) 01:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Noone knows exactly how many nes consoles are left but they were sold in such huge volume that they are unlikely to become particularlly rare for a long time. Looking at ebay.co.uk ( [1] ) it seems that most of the auctions I find for the console alone have a current bid under £20 and even buy it now listings are only arround £30. Games can push the price up considerablly depending on exactly what games they are (though you may make more selling the games and console seperately especially if the games are rare) Plugwash (talk) 14:36, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

If you have the Mario Bros series, the original Zelda, Tecmo Bowl, those games go for a decent price. Game Genie, Power Pad, Zapper, Power Glove, R.O.B., those will drive the price up considerably as well. Useight (talk) 16:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Palette

Is this image accurate? It seems to be in line with this web page that we use as a reference, but I wonder if there's a way to calculate what the RGB values should be given a certain display gamma (as for example in the article gamma correction). Shinobu (talk) 23:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

What about backgrounds/tiles

Sprites are detailed, but nothing is said about background/tile capabilities beyond that they too are limited to 3+1 colours. Shinobu (talk) 02:59, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

NES Donkey Kong.png and NES Super Mario Bros.png

Neither image's Fair use rationale extends to this article. The images are only fair use in the Donkey Kong (arcade game) and Super Mario Bros. articles,respectively. Until they have Fair use rationals for this article, I have removed them from this article for the time being. 99.230.152.143 (talk) 22:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

"Ness" or "Enn-Ee-Ess"

I tried to remove the nonsense about the one-word pronunciation, as the official pronunciation is indeed to sound out each letter, and i even provided a link to an old commercial but i still got reverted. So, in addition to that first link i provided, here are 8 more, all of which clearly say "Enn-Ee-Ess":

copyvio links removed Anomie⚔ 23:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

While searching for these, not once did I come up with a result anywhere calling it the "Ness". Now, even if you want to tell me that one video doesn't make it an official pronunciation, NINE videos with the same trend, with NONE saying the opposite, does. As for the claim that "official or not, people pronounce it in several different ways" is bogus. First of all, we're not going to accept "noo-kyoo-lar" as a correct pronunciation of "nuclear" are we? Secondly, the pronunciation of "Ness" itself is unverifiable and after seeing every single official mention of it pronounced as three letters, claiming that anyone in Nintendo ever intended it to be called "Ness" is original research. This places the burden of proof on you to prove that it can acceptably be called that, not onto me to prove that it cannot, and until such time as proof is given, the convention should be "an NES" and the note should be removed. — DeFender1031 23:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the links to copyright violations from the post above. As for the post above, I doubt Nintendo actually intended any particular pronunciation for "NES", and despite your random claims people do pronounce it both "ness" and "nezz" (and probably "Nintendo") in addition to "en ee es". But I'm not going to edit war over this. Go ahead and change it to "an NES" if you want, and it'll sit until someone else comes along and changes it back. Woo-hoo. Anomie⚔ 23:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, they're in the page history for anyone who wants to see them, and i personally think that using them for proof here falls under fair use and that if whoever uploaded them to youtube did so in violation, that's youtube's job to sort out, not ours. Be that as it may, i'd like to settle this, as the convention currently on wikipedia is not set. I've seen pages with "a NES" and "an "NES", the former of which is, as i have just shown, incorrect. I am curious why you keep glossing over my point of an official pronunciation, and merely claim that "since people say it, it makes it okay". You did not make a single counterargument to my statements. If you have any proof to the pronunciation, i would love to see it, and find a way to incorporate it into the article. If no such proof exists however, then we should follow the official sources, which say N-E-S. — DeFender1031 23:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I was going to be nice and not leave {{uw-copyright-link}} on your talk page, but if you really want it I can go ahead. As for the rest, I said I'm not going to argue about it with you, because frankly I have enough to deal with at the moment without arguing something incredibly pointless with a closed-minded individual. Anomie⚔ 00:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I am not close-minded. I am incredibly open to any proof you might have. You haven't provided any, instead skirting around my points without ever addressing them. As for the links, fair use on our part makes us not responsible for where and how we come by those links. Let youtube handle it. — DeFender1031 00:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I've heard both versions of the pronunciation being uttered by a variety of people, so based on anectotal evidence, the previously removed comment, has some credence in my opinion. This video (around time 1:12) is an example of a person that uses "Nez" and "Snez", lending validity to the claim. --Stux (talk) 23:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Anecdotal evidence is not a verifiable source and that cideo of yours is in no way official, first party OR third party. — DeFender1031 23:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's your verifiable source: http://snes.org.uk/ See content note "A", which in turn has further verifiable sources. --Stux (talk) 04:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem here is over what's official and what isn't, so I modified the article to reflect it. I think we can all agree that NOA themselves calls it the N-E-S, while there also exist people who call it NES. 217.132.155.37 (talk) 05:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

True, and your modification was good except for the part about the indefinite article, which should always be "an" following the official method. — DeFender1031 05:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

You'll find that your change has already been reverted back. Useight (talk) 05:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Look again, i simply removed the part about the indefinite article. — DeFender1031 05:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

That's what I was referring to. Useight (talk) 05:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what you're fighting about now, but DeFender1031 raises a good point here, which I think I agree with. Since it's officially pronounced as N-E-S, the indefinite article should be "an". I don't think we change between "a" and "an" just because many people pronounce the following word incorrectly. 217.132.155.37 (talk) 05:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I'm really tired. I thought we were talking about N-E-S versus "ness". I'll leave you two to discuss "a" versus "an". I gotta get some sleep. Useight (talk) 05:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

A Wikipedia article is not a suitable "verifiable source", even if the copy being referenced is hosted on another site. And those further "reliable sources" are forum threads. WP:RS covers this is in some depth. As for snes.org.uk, I would even go so far as to say that with no original content whatsoever, it is a blatant spam site, crudely designed to skim a Google News search, and repost the search results as blog posts. Dancter (talk) 06:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Wading into this, I think generally NES as a word as opposed to a initilisim is more widely accepted, if not more prevalent in The UK at least, so we need to be careful not to create a US-Centric view. See http://waxy.org/2008/05/bbc_twos_the_net_episodes_from_1994/ for a (Not very good to cite) example.

No "Official" source exists on this either way, but a quick scoot across the internet shows many people asking this question, and the feedback is split between the two: http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=mozclient&num=100&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=Pronounce+SNES & http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=mozclient&num=100&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=Pronounce+NES

I think the best research in this particular case is in the reliable sources noticeboard - This archive is about the SNES but, by logical extension it must apply to the NES, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_1#.22How_do_you_pronounce_SNES.3F.22

Again, it mentions Nintendo Power, but as stated, it sound like it was more a straw office poll, and this is a US Publication, with no input from Nintendo Europe.

I see no problem with saying about the two pronunciations - it would be like not mentioning World of Warcraft is commonly abriavated to WoW, as it's not "Official." As far as I'm aware, the only official comment is Always say Nintendo Entertainment System, no mater how it's written, much like they always insisted on NINTENDO Nintendo GameCube in written literature.81.137.159.61 (talk) 16:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Adding Links to NES Game Pages?

Hi, this may not be the proper place to ask this question, but I was wondering what the policy is for adding links to NES game pages? I ask this because I added a lot of external links to my site (neshq.com) from NES game pages on Wikipedia once before and they got removed. I feel like [most of] these links should be here since in many cases the NES HQ page is the single most comprehensive (or one of the most comprehensive) information center for a particular game. I noticed that MobyGames has a link on every NES game page I've visited and these pages usually don't actually contain much info on the games. Hopefully this is the right place to ask this question, but if not, can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks! (Neshq (talk) 00:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC))

Try asking at WT:VG. Anomie⚔ 11:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Duck Hunt/Gyromite/ROB Bundle did NOT include Super Mario Bros.

The article misleads and seems to indicate this bundle included SMB. It did not in fact include the game. I can't find a good source for this, however, I see no proof in this article that it DID inlcude it either. I don't want to start arguements or anything but I got the bundle when I was a kid and I remember for 100% certainty there was no SMB. It was only Gyromite and Duck Hunt. Help! I tried to edit and it got reverted. I am NOT vandalising.--Scottymoze (talk) 04:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Look! http://www.dawdle.com/product.php/nes-deluxe-set-5ef05 --Scottymoze (talk) 04:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

And... http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Nintendo-ROB-Robot-NES-Deluxe-Set-in-Original-Box_W0QQitemZ190235091463QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190235091463--Scottymoze (talk) 04:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

We just need to change "...two additional game packs" to "...two game packs" and I'll be a happy dude. Thanks to whoever can help!--Scottymoze (talk) 04:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I think someone might have been overzealous in making corrections to the article, as the article no longer even mentioned SMB as being part of the Control Deck version! I've fixed this, as I know for 100% SMB was included. If needed, I can even dig out my original system box and snap an image.76.226.212.75 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC).

WP:VG External Links check

This Featured Article has four dead external links, which can be found here. Please fix them as soon as possible. Thanks! --haha169 (talk) 23:07, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

nes_games.pdf link is dead. Accessdate could be updated (2005!) — Dispenser 00:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Prices

After a recent edit by 76.127.210.159, I decided to do some additional searching on historical price information, and I was surprised to find other sources of the time similarly indicating a much lower price point than the prices currently cited, which are more common on web.

• http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q="Nintendo+Entertainment+System"&sa=N&sugg=d&as_user_hdate=1987

I figured it would be good to raise the issue here, in the hopes that someone with access to other resources could clarify the matter. The only explanations I can think of are that prices dropped dramatically in the first year, or the commonly-cited prices are somehow misleading. Dancter (talk) 22:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I noted that the link the IP user mentioned was to a Christmas advertising catalog from the year after the NES's release; it could well be that Sears slashed the price to increase sales of the hot new item. Also, most likely the prices in the article are the MSRPs from the release date; it's possible retailers sold it for less even before an "official" price drop. Anomie⚔ 00:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I just find it very odd. As early as June 1986, newspaper articles were citing the price of the Control Deck at $99. That's half the currently-stated price, four months after the system had a nationwide release. Conversely, I couldn't find any newspaper articles of the time mentioning the $199 or $250 prices. If this is a matter of the common price diverging significantly from the MSRP, that's something that should be addressed, just as the release date has been. Dancter (talk) 16:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Date for release of Action Set is inaccurate

The article says the Action Set (NES+zapper, SMB/Duck Hunt) was released in November 1988. But that can't be right because I remember having that set no later than Christmas 1987, and possibly earlier. --ScottJ (talk) 18:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Wer'nt Duck Hunt a 1985 nes launch tilte? mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 11:55, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Edit, Japan, discounied.

I have changed this article with a sourced edit, that says that the NES instead of incorectly being discounied in Japan in October 2003, (without the snes.) that it was discounied in Japan in September 2003 with the SNES, I have a OFFIAL source for that, so please can no-one edit my edit, to change my article as it IS releavent. Thankyou, mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 13:04, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of the discussion was to merge Nintendo AVS into History of the Nintendo Entertainment System#North America per the recommendations and consensus to merge. MuZemike 00:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

---

I propose that Nintendo AVS be merged into Nintendo Entertainment System. I believe that the NES's prototype can be much better explained concisely in the context of this article. Please discuss below, as well as indicate whether you support or oppose the merger. Thank you, MuZemike (talk) 19:01, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Probably better just to merge it into History of the Nintendo Entertainment System#North America. The AVS is not really significant enough for any real coverage in the main NES article. Dancter (talk) 19:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I forgot about the history article. That's not a bad idea. MuZemike (talk) 21:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think the history article would be a better fit. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 21:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Anyone who wants more info should read "The Ultimate History of Video Games". The AVS was just a normal Famicom with a "AVS" label stuck on so Nintendo could try and sell the system to retailers (this was when the game market was still basically dead in North America). When they failed to sell any, they re-named it to the NES (to avoid the game image) and introduced stuff like the Zap Gun. It was nothing more than a codename basically for the NES, it would be like having a separate article for the Katana (the working name for the Dreamcast). TJ Spyke 16:58, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I actually did check out and read that book from my city's public library this past spring (as I have used the book a bit as a source for some of the material in the Game Boy article), but I cannot remember exactly what the book's author said about the NES prototype. It still doesn't seem like anything that could warrant its own independent article and, as I said earlier, can better be explained in the context of the NES. MuZemike 00:16, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

note d

Where is the d note, from the first sentence? OboeCrack (talk) 17:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Ya, I noticed that too. It leads to nowhere..... We should fix it. nevermind, we don't know where it is supposed to lead to, so we can't fix it. DOES SNYBODY KNOW WHERE IT IS SUPPOSED TO LEAD TO??? HELP WOULD BE ^{VERY MUCH}APPRECIATED.

---

039919930iloveanagramssmarganaevoli039910030 (Talk to 039919930iloveanagramssmarganaevoli039910030) 21:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of the Game Save section in the article

Last night, I removed the section on the NES's capability of saving games from the article, and the original author of the section has undone my changes. Rather than have this devolve into an edit war, I'm hoping to get some support behind me for this, so I don't look like a raving lunatic.

My reasoning for deleting the section is as follows:

• The section features a great number of spelling and grammar errors, including at least three different spellings of the word "console."
  • If you see mistakes why don't you just fix it...instead of attacking another User's entire article and jepordize its existance. Read more belowSchnitzelMannGreek.
• The section seems to suggest that the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) and the Nintendo 64 included the capablity of saving games, which is inaccurate at best. The SNES lacked saving capabilities as well. Furthermore, the SNES and (most) N64 games saved using battery-backed RAM in the game cartridge, which isn't a component of the console, as the the section seems to imply.
• The section includes a great number of opinions on games being "short" and Nintendo including Warp Pipes in order to make up for the fact that the NES lacked saving capabilities
• The page cited in this section makes no reference to game saves of any sort
• Games could be saved with the Famicom Disk System
• The entire section is moot, as it ignores the fact that The Legend of Zelda and Final Fantasy both included battery-backed RAM for saving games.

I attempted to describe this as best as possible in my changenote, but it seems this has gone ignored. I'm going to edit it back, but I was kind of hoping to pre-emtptively make my case, should things go horribly wrong. Zirka (talk) 17:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it was actually ignored. SchnitzelMannGreek did try to incorporate your caveats into the section. I just don't think the section was appropriate. It has more to do with general console history than the NES itself, and is already covered in the saved game article. Dancter (talk) 18:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

KEEPWhen I was thinking about getting an NES before I really did(3 MONTHS AGO)-I wandered about this and had to do alot of research to find my answer. Having this section would have greatly helped me. I think others might find it helpful for its nesscessary about the game and is told in a straight-forward and understandalbe way. As for the Nintendo 64 and SNES- those can all save(i have them). The game Super Mario 64 is a classic exammple of a game with saving(its nesscessary for the game is long). Likewise-Super Mario World to the SNES CAN SAVE. Please CONSIDER PUTTING THIS BACK-iT DOESN'T HURT BUT ACTUALLY HELPS. sOME USERS LIKE MYSELF WOULD have gone to the NES article rather than a Saved Game Article. The saved game article doesn't even say that straightforwardly.Please respond on my talk page.SchnitzelMannGreek. 22:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Nintendo 64 and SNES games have pretty much the same variety of game-save options as the NES. Some use a Controller Pak, some have internal battery backup, a few use passwords, and some have no save options whatsoever. Even on the NES, battery backup wasn't that rare. Before the "32-bit era", it was pretty much a necessity for role-playing games outside Japan. Dancter (talk) 00:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I see what you're saying but I have all of those systems and it's definately different for the NES. You can't save your game of Super Mario Bros. on the NES. When they came out with super mario world and super mario bros. for SNES- it allowed saving.I didn't know that at first and this section would have been useful. I sited my sources and its in correct wiki format. I dont see why you have to delete it.SchnitzelMannGreek. 02:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

None of your sources seemed to directly verify anything you added. One of them was even a self-reference to Wikipedia. Again, this has more to do with general console history (and maybe game design), not something intrinsic to the NES. Games for the Sega Master System also didn't have game-saving to the degree of its successors. Battery backup was just starting to become viable around that time. 3D graphics, analog control, and online features were also less common in those days, but were more common in later generations. Few first-person shooters, numerous side-scrolling platformers. While someone may find that information helpful, those things do not belong in this article. There is a point at which the reader is to look up a related article for information, rather than expecting everything in one article. Dancter (talk) 16:54, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Add

Someone add this info to the right places (like most expensive NES cart): http://gizmodo.com/5377306/strange-one+of+a+kind-nintendo-cartridge-fetches-highest-price-yet

Telephone jack in the game? New highest EVER price? 71.90.42.59 (talk) 03:43, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Featured status?

In regards to my edit of adding a 'Reception' and 'Legacy' headings on the article, I would just like to say that I am questioning the featured status of this article. There are parts, specifically presentation, organisation and sections such as the ones I added that need to be added and improved. At its current state, I do not think it is of featured status. JTBX (talk) 02:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Better, closer out game controller image

We've only got one image of the game controller used in NA, EU etc. etc. and it's zoomed in. Do you think we can get another with it's wire in the background so it's not so close in. And of cause from a distance. That's my message really.--213.83.125.225 (talk) 12:01, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Inappropriate citations

Citation 29 (Mattel company information) is hosted under "YourNewFragrance.com". Is this appropriate? (188.222.50.66 (talk) 14:49, 16 May 2010 (UTC))

Lead section

The lead section of this article contains some unverified and dubious claims pertaining to various NES "clones". Please consider providing additional references to such information and/or moving it to a new section within the article's subject. theNHJG 02:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to see the reference to "Pegasus" taken out, or at least un-linked. A red link in an article as important as this one really shouldn't have things like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.136.4.136 (talk) 20:16, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Battle Kid and the Fortress of Peril

This would be the most recently released NES game. it even says so on the Sunday Funday page, I'd fix it myself but I wouldn't know how to cite correctly. 204.10.222.30 (talk) 15:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC) Noodles the bored.

cartridge memory space and the power of bank switching

It current reads: "The system supports up to 32 KB of program ROM at a time, but this can be expanded by orders of magnitude by the process of bank switching." What was the most that could be done, or was done by any game? Also, did some game cartridges have more memory in them than others? What was the most you could store on any of them at any time? Dream Focus 20:44, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Is this a Nintendo office building?

building resembles an NES console — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kowloonese (talk • contribs) 17:06, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Um, I'm pretty sure that's CG (i.e. not real). Alphathon /'æl.f'æ.θɒn/ ^(talk) 17:18, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Nintoaster

This should be in this article. Help me find references:

• IGN:Modder Builds Nintoaster
  • "Here at IGN we love retro mods, but we typically don't have the time to highlight every classic system retrofitting that comes across the wire. Every so often, however, one surfaces that is worth noting; the Nintoaster is just such a case..."

• The Nintoaster: Breakfast of Champions, gizmodo

• Nintoaster mod makes NES games tastier than ever, engadget

• Super Nintoaster!, escapist magazine

This is probably the most common NES mod. It has inspired numerous derivatives such as the above mentioned Super Nintoaster and the Nintoaster 64, etc. Numerous instructional videos for how to create one have been produced and they are also sold. The Angry Video Game Nerd also has been playing on a Nintoaster that his friend built him ever since the 90th episode when it first appeared. Does anyone else see any other glaring mentions of the Nintoaster that I missed?AerobicFox (talk) 03:27, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

European "Mattel" and "NES" Versions

"The differences between the two are the text on the front flap, a smoother finish on the top and bottom of the "MATTEL Version" console and being compatible with US and Canadian NES systems."

On the last portion, does the author mean US and Canadian "cartridges"? The systems really do not interact with each other, so the statement makes no sense. --Timbudtwo (talk) 02:52, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Probably; I would imagine it means "compatible with cartridges designed/made for US and Canadian NES systems". If this is the case, it should probably be reworded to "compatible with North American NES cartridges" or something similar, since there is no real reason to list the US and Canada when simply NA will do (+ the ambiguity you mentioned). I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject myself, so I can't really say whether your assessment is correct, but that's how I read it. Alphathon /'æl.f'æ.ðɒn/ ^(talk) 03:04, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Mattel was in charge of manufacturing and distribution in Europe before Nintendo made their EU headquarters and then later released to the rest of Europe. UK, Ita, Aus exclusively share Pal A (Pal B is most of the rest of EU), the Mattel version was Pal A. When Nintendo made their headquarters they took over manufactoring and therefore the only difference is the text on the flap. The Mattel versions are rare for their scarcity (only produced for short while) but nothing alse. 92.233.71.47 (talk) 09:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The "MATTEL Version", at least the European version, do have a smoother finish to both top and bottom of the unit. Saying that the only difference is that of the text on the flap, is rather misleading. As an owner of both NES and MATTEL versions, I can confirm that MATTEL used a smoother casing (The same smoothness as on the front and sides of any NES unit). But also note that early North American NES units will also have this smooth finish aswell, changed to the textured finish around late 1986 to mid 87. The reason for changing the finish of the case would have been due to the fact that it was easily scratched. Also the original text says "being compatible with US and Canadian NES systems", that is not true since these units had the region lockout chip. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.3.235.121 (talk) 14:07, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

It should be pointed out that while MATTEL versions were similar, NES versions had different texts on the front: like "EUROPEAN version" in Germany, "VERSIONE ITALIANA" in Italy or "NES VERSION" in the UK...--Aytrus (talk) 18:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

finding a model #

Hi, I saw on one of those pawn shows that an original nes can be valuable and was wondering how to determine if your could be one of those Francine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.141.254.209 (talk) 00:29, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Korean release

I noticed that the page says South Korea calls the NES the Honda Tomboy, when it should be Hyundai Comboy. If you could fix this, it would be appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yolofamicom22 (talk • contribs) 23:34, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

The System Also Known As Nintendo?

The system is not and never was called "Nintendo". I agree people incorrectly called it that, but is just that a slang, I even remember people saying "What Nintendo Tapes do you have?" but it doesn't mean it should be put in the article. Aside from websites like Vimm's Lair I don't see anyone calling it "Nintendo" anymore and don't think it should be used in the article as "the system was also known as Nintendo..." no it was never known as that officially or otherwise. Carts were never known as Tapes, it was just ignorance plain and simple. Tyros1972 (talk) 13:59, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I think you fail to undestand that Wikipedia often lists the most common names used of something. When the system was new and relevant most people simply called it 'Nintendo', the same way people commonly referred to the 2600 simply as 'the Atari'. This made sense to people considering it was followed by the 'Super Nintendo'. In fact, 'Nintendo' was more or less synonymous with video games in general in the late 80s, the same way the Atari was in the early 80s. The fact that you somehow perceive giving a common (nick)name to something as erronous seems to indicate that you are too young to remember this time period. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.128.246.133 (talk) 06:52, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Hardware design flaws

The phrase "design flaws" indicates a POV that there was something wrong with the design. I feel that a more neutral phrase should be used. --75.140.157.105 (talk) 01:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

There WAS something wrong with the design. Nintendo addressed it themselves by later using standard card edge connectors and releasing the top loading NES model. I've removed your tags. Forteblast (talk) 17:52, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. The poor connectors and Nes lock-out chip and the quirky "front loader" to market it not as a game console was a "design flaw" plain and simple. There is plenty of RS to support that as stated above.

I don't like the words "design flaw" since it was made that way on purpose. But, standard card edge connectors could get dirty and stop working too. I certainly remember our Snes and N64 getting like this after some time. Like the nes, I've heard of people blowing into the carts, etc. But a good alcohol cleaning got them like new again. Of course, standard card edge connectors were a tighter fit, so this sort of thing happened less, but it did happen. So were standard card edge connectors a "design flaw" too?

I'd like to add that today I have a Nes and as long as I keep the carts neatly stored when not in use, the Nes woks the first time. Once in a great while the dreaded oxide builds up so what I do is rub the Nes's connector with paper. Believe it or not, just dry. And if course, no blowing into the carts! I suspect cart-blowing increases corrosion so my "dry" cleaning method wouldn't work. 66.114.93.6 (talk) 02:48, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Plastic Yellowing

Perhaps this should include a bit of depth on what causes some of the systems to yellow. I've looked this up before, it has something to do with flame retardant chemicals or the plastic being exposed to light. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pie-jacker875 (talk • contribs) 04:30, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Legacy

is missing that NES games are STILL PLAYED TODAY for various reasons (e.g. challenge) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.122.35 (talk) 02:32, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I think there's an error in this section. "Redesigned the system so it would give the appearance of a child's toy". Weren't they designing the NES so that it didn't look like a child's toy? --Pie-jacker875 (talk) 04:33, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

New article

Make famicom a seperate article since it's not a nes --94.197.201.88 (talk) 23:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

It's basically the same thing. By your logic we should make the PAL and NTSC NES have different articles.--Pie-jacker875 (talk) 04:37, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Competition with the Atari 7800

Added from sources of sales and the effects that Nintendos policies had on competition: "=== Competition with the Atari 7800 in North America === The NES was originally in fierce competition with the Atari 7800 in NA when it launched nation wide in 1986. Both consoles were massive success's at launch with some retailers selling out of Atari 7800's with NES's still on the shelves.

The NES and Atari 7800 battled and brought back a then dead industry. However, Atari did not have the money for major advertising to get media attention, and also remained silent about sales most of the time with few exceptions. The NES however did, which gave the NES a huge adavantage over them and all other competitors in the market. The NES for better or worse, had the media spotlight.

The NES policies could be the reason that the NES was Nintendos best selling console till 2006. After the NES business practices were deemed illegal, developers started dropping Nintendos third-party support more and more and jumping on the competition. The Sega Master System suffered even more so for this in NA, where Sega almost had to rely entirely on first party for a lot of years after its launch in 1986.

Nintendo still has issues with third-party in NA to the current day with their Wii U 8th generation console. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakandsig (talk • contribs) 20:32, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

information on voice support?

shouldnt there be some info on how the nes was able to support voices in certain games,especially considering the hardware limits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.115.89.11 (talk) 16:55, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Original research

This edit is a textbook example of original research and I urge those watching this page to revert it, at least until Jakandsig can provide a reliable source to support his assertions.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 02:44, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

subsequent consoles

There is a portion of this article that says "set the standard for subsequent consoles of its generation" I had attempted to change this to "After" its generation because that's when the actual influence happened. However the (talk) seems to have some information that may prove this wrong or so I assume. My argument is that the Atari 7800, and Intellivision 3, and what not don't show any influence from the NES to say that it set standards. Even after the NES in the same generation, you had A laserdisc system, XEGS (which uses a joystick), and the wonder max (which uses everything but a joystick or gamepad). So of its generation does not seem to make sense unless you are taking about the Mark III Sega.

But look at the 4th generation and you will see the Genesis with a similar crossed D-pad (although the similarities end there) and the TG-16, which one could argue is an NES just reverse and had two turbo switches in the controller. Even the Lynx went and used a crossed D-pad 4th generation, the first for an Atari console (outside limited ones released with the 7800 in the UK, which I think had more to do with Sega.)

Now I am open to all arguments, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I don't think one would see the full influence of the NES until the 4th generation. Just like I don't believe you would find the full influence of the PSX or Xbox until the 6th and 7th generations respectively. John Mayor ERS (talk) 23:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

• I would agree with this. The 7800 was developed during the same time frame as the Famicom/NES, the XEGS is an evolution of the Atari 8-bit computer line, and the Sega Master System is a further evolution of a console, the SG-1000, that launched the same say as the Famicom. Certainly the redesigned controller of the Mark III/Master System must have been influenced by the design of the NES controller, but influencing one design facet of one system hardly seems like "setting a standard" for a generation. There is also no source for that statement. If anything, the ColecoVision was the system that set the standard for the console generation, as it had a direct influence on both the NES and the SMS. I have no objections to this statement being removed. Indrian (talk) 23:33, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Well, I was going to reword it but we can remove it too I guess. Indrian, do you have a source of the Colecovision influencing the SMS? It could be useful on another page. I was able to find one for the NES but I have not found anything on the SMS. John Mayor ERS (talk) 23:39, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

• No direct source unfortunately, so it cannot really be added, but it cannot be a coincidence that the SMS uses the exact same CPU and sound chip as the ColecoVision, especially since Sega had a close relationship with Coleco as one of the first companies to license its arcade properties for the ColecoVision. Indrian (talk) 23:43, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, afraid that won't be enough to put on the CV and SMS pages sadly. John Mayor ERS (talk) 23:47, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Famicom VS. Famicon

Should Famicom really be used? Since the linguistically correct translation of ファミコン would be Famicon, since it ends with a 'n' (see below).

For example, 'lolita complex'　(Kana: 'ロリータ・コンプレックス', Rômaji: 'rorîta/rori-ta kompurekkusu/konpurekkusu') gets abbreviated to 'lolicon'(Kana: 'ロリコン', Rômaji: 'rorikon'). Since Japanese doesn't differ between 'r'- and 'l'-based syllables, the 'r'-to/from-'l' interchangeability is natural. They do, however, differentiate between 'm'- and 'n'-based syllables, with the exception being kana's only single consonant, 'n' (Kana: 'ン' and 'ん' in katakana respectively hiragana), which either: A) Always takes the form of 'n'. (i.e: '先輩'　→　'せんぱい'　→　'senpai') B) Takes the form of 'm' whenever followed by a 'm'-, 'b'-, or 'p'-based syllable, which for the record, Famicon does not. (i.e: '先輩'　→　'せんぱい'　→　'sempai')

Whether B or A is used depends on which romanisation one uses. Such as ヘボン式ローマ字 ('Hebon-shiki Rômaji'/'Hepburn-style romanisation') which is focused on typing words as an American would pronounce them, 日本式ローマ字 ('Nihon-shiki Rômaji'/'Japanese-style Romanisation') which is focused on tranliterating the word as (almost) close to Japanese as possible, 訓令式ローマ字 ('Kunrei-shiki Rômaji'/Directive Style Romanisation') which is basically a revision of the former but even more similar to Japanese, etc. The only one one (as far as I know, besides outdated romanisations) that uses above B-scenario is the Modified Hepburn (which is the American National Standard System), however, Nihon-shiki and Kunrei-shiki are both standard according to International Organisation for Standardisation (with the former being the strict standard), and the latter is also the standard chosen by the Japanese government.

And since English wikipedia is very internationally inclined (Australia, Canada, UK, US, etc. have English as it's first language, after all. And many with English as their second or third language use it as well, myself included.), I personally think that the international standard should be used, especially since it's a non-American article. And if not that, then I think that atleast the modern and correct transliteration should be used. That is, no 'm' unless followed by one of the aforementioned syllables. I think it should be mentioned though that it is often (incorrectly, by todays standards) transliterated to 'famicom', however. In the case someone unsure of the nomer decides to google for more info -- in which case, Famicom would yield more results. (Kinda like with Beijing/Peking. Where one is an outdated transliteration, yet both are used. And they mention both in the article here on wikipedia.) 82.182.171.126 (talk) 13:53, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Nintendo officially romanises ファミコン as Famicom. Worldwide, including Japan. If it has been officially romanised as Famicon by Nintendo in the past, please provide a reliable source. --Grandy02 (talk) 17:57, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Also since Fasmicom is a cotraction of the English words Family and Computer is would make little sense to use Con over Com.--76.71.208.147 (talk) 23:07, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Famicon? Are you kidding me? The Super Famicom has the word "Famicom" printed right on the console. I can't believe you wasted time to write that whole discussion up. It's not Famicon. End of discussion. WAT (talk • contributions) 01:04, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

You're really using 1983 Romaji? It's clearly FamicoM on the system, the games, and the manuals, despite having katkana reading famicon.2602:304:CFD3:2EE0:48FA:544A:C85E:38B4 (talk) 09:35, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Power Set

According to Nintendo Power, September/October, 1988 (Volume 2) issue, on page 92, the new Power Set will debut in September, 1988. This being right from Nintendo, which anyone who has this issue can verify, why is the date that the Power Set debuted on this article December, 1988? It should say September, 1988.

It was 1988. I had one for one, but I also have all Nintendo Power issues, and it is listed not only on the Sep/Oct, but also on the Nov/Dec issue (back page) as "Christmas gifts"- all 3 sets, Power, Action, Base. Yes, it is 1988, 1989.2602:304:CFD3:2EE0:48FA:544A:C85E:38B4 (talk) 09:37, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

2003?

I'm pretty sure they stopped production in Japan before 2003. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.71.77.111 (talk) 02:16, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree, the gamecube came out in 2003 and the n64 was already out in japan in 1994. Yea some stuff on wiki is biased --94.197.201.88 (talk) 23:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC) No the GameCube came out in 2001 and the n64 came out in 1996 Jacob Steven Smith (talk) 10:36, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

No, actually they didn't. In Japan, it continued to be produced until 2004. Their financial reports verify this.2602:304:CFD3:2EE0:48FA:544A:C85E:38B4 (talk) 09:38, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Release Section seems confusingly contradictory

I am by no means a Wikipedia power user, so maybe I'm missing the reason for this, but the section on the 1985 NYC release seems strangely contradictory. It provides Nintendo's official list of 18 launch titles, but then precedes to reference note h, which essentially states that this list is incorrect and should only contain 17 titles, some of which are different. Why does the main article text still have the incorrect information? Couldn't we fix the list, remove the footnote, and cite the NYT Macy's ad and/or the LAT Target ad mentioned in Dayton's piece as primary sources? Brideck (talk) 23:28, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

A NES or an NES?

So should it be a NES or an NES? Both appear in the article (and references), 3 and 6 times respectively. Naturally it depends whether you read it as "a nes" or "an en-ee-es" (or "a Nintendo Entertainment System"), but I think the same indefinite article should be used consistently throughout. Apoyon (talk) 12:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

I think it should be a NES unless unless there is something else like the that is used instead. I would not say I bought DVD player.--67.70.140.89 (talk) 05:04, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

There are some cases where a is not needed. For example and food items adorned with NES-themed imagery would not need to use the term a neither would The packaging of the launch lineup of NES games. It's a case of context.--67.70.140.89 (talk) 05:08, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

It would be an NES, since "en" starts with a vowel.98.243.94.83 (talk) 21:12, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

That makes no sense. NES is short for Nintendo Entertainment System so it does not start with a vowel.--69.157.253.160 (talk) 06:41, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

No, but it's pronounced "en-EE-ess" so "an" would be used instead of "a". An LCD, an SQL injection, and an FPS are other examples. Supernerd11 _{Firemind ^_^ Pokedex} 04:26, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Depends where you are. I've only ever heard it referred to as a NES - pronounced "Ness". Maybe it's an Australian thing, we also referred to the follow up console as a SNES (sness). Acepilot87

Family Computer logo

I took the liberty of replacing the Famicom Family mark with the actual Family Computer logo used on the side portions of the game boxes. The Famicom Family mark was just a Japanese equivalent of the Nintendo Seal of Approval to let consumers know which games and peripherals were officially licensed by Nintendo. Jonny2x4 (talk) 16:26, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Nationwide Release Date Inconsistencies

The article has a couple of contradictory statements as to when the console was originally released nationwide:

"Nintendo seeded these first systems to limited American test markets starting in New York City on October 18, 1985, following up with a full-fledged North American release of the console in February of the following year.[18]"

"...the system was test-marketed further beginning in February 1986, with the nationwide release occurring in September 1986."

I'm leaning toward the second statement to be more accurate (especially if the test market release in New York "failed miserably" according to the Philly.com article), but someone should verify this. The reference from the first statement is from a 14 year-old book that I've never read; it's possible that the author mis-interpreted Feb. 1986 to be a nationwide release when it reality it was just another test market release.

• Yes, the second statement is accurate. The first test did not fail miserably (even though only about half the systems were sold, the point was to interest retailers in stocking the system, which they were able to do), but it was a really limited release and they did not have inventory to go nationally until late in 1986. Therefore, they expanded to Los Angeles in February and a few more cities in the months after that before a full nationwide release in the Fall. Indrian (talk) 20:45, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

"Technology was not in need of heavy exaggeration"

"By stark contrast, Nintendo's marketing strategy aimed to regain consumer and retailer confidence, by delivering a singular platform whose technology was not in need of heavy exaggeration and whose qualities were clearly defined."

This is clearly an opinion and doesn't belong in Wikipedia: "singular platform" (the three most popular platforms before the NES were singular platforms in their own rights), "technology was not in need of heavy exaggeration" and "qualities were clearly defined". You'll find many games in the NES library which had Nintendo's Seal of Quality and whose covers were exaggerated or lies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MJaap (talk • contribs) 10:06, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

@Mjaap: It's a fact (not an opinion) that this was Nintendo's strategy and aim (or corporate opinion). — Smuckola(talk) 13:19, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

@Smuckola: Then you should have no problems adding sources and quotations to the article, with links. Otherwise it's still an opinion, corporate or otherwise.

Mini NES Redirect: Where to?

Quick question: NES Classic Edition currently redirects here to the bit about it under Legacy. Should it redirect here or to the bit about it here: Nintendo#Future: Mobile, NX, and NES? -- Gestrid (talk) 16:16, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I would think here would be the better target. If anything, that content could be pared down a bit at Nintendo - its a bit detailed to have that much on something announced today in a 40+ year spanning history section - and put here it here instead. Sergecross73 msg me 17:02, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Released in 1984 and 1985?

Was this really when it was released in North America? I remember seeing the commercials for it a month or two before Christmas of 1986, that's what made me want the system, guess it wasn't widely advertised until 1986. The snare (talk) 01:40, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Missing technical specifications

A list of technical specifications is missing. For example, the CPU clock speed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.222.101.52 (talk) 20:22, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

It's not missing, it has been removed. Go back to 2015 for that bit.Anss123 (talk) 08:15, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

"low-quality" digital samples?

Please, be more specific, "low-quality" it's too relative. For me, this quality is pretty well for a 1983 console https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dBXuZtbos . The correct description is "7-bit DPCM samples". Source: https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/2A03 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brayatan1990 (talk • contribs) 05:21, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2017

Hello, I am hoping you will consider changing this section. I've done my research on the design flaw of the NES and there are big mistakes in this section. There are also aftermarket solutions for this flaw and a successful crowdfunding campaign that isn't mentioned. I have no commercial interest in promoting them, but it deserves a mention in an encyclopedia.

Please change:

When Nintendo released the NES in the US, the design styling was deliberately different from that of other game consoles. Nintendo wanted to distinguish its product from those of competitors and to avoid the generally poor reputation that game consoles had acquired following the video game crash of 1983. One result of this philosophy was to disguise the cartridge slot design as a front-loading zero insertion force (ZIF) cartridge socket, designed to resemble the front-loading mechanism of a VCR. The newly designed connector worked quite well when both the connector and the cartridges were clean and the pins on the connector were new. Unfortunately, the ZIF connector was not truly zero insertion force. When a user inserted the cartridge into the NES, the force of pressing the cartridge down and into place bent the contact pins slightly, as well as pressing the cartridge’s ROM board back into the cartridge itself. Frequent insertion and removal of cartridges caused the pins to wear out from repeated usage over the years and the ZIF design proved more prone to interference by dirt and dust than an industry-standard card edge connector.[86] These design issues were not alleviated by Nintendo’s choice of materials; the console slot nickel connector springs would wear due to design and the game cartridge copper connectors were also prone to tarnishing.[87] Many players would try to alleviate issues in the game caused by this corrosion by blowing into the cartridges, then reinserting them, which actually hurt the copper connectors by speeding up the tarnishing.[88][89]

To:

When Nintendo released the NES in the US, the design styling was deliberately different from that of other game consoles. Nintendo wanted to distinguish its product from those of competitors and to avoid the generally poor reputation that game consoles had acquired following the video game crash of 1983. One result of this philosophy was to disguise the cartridge slot design as a front-loading cartridge socket, designed to resemble the front-loading mechanism of a VCR. The newly designed connector worked quite well when both the connector and the cartridges were clean and the pins on the connector were new. When a user inserted the cartridge into the NES, the force of pressing the cartridge down and into place bent the contact pins slightly. Frequent insertion and removal of cartridges cause the pins to fatigue from repeated usage over the years. Retro gamers that are still using the NES can expect the connector to fail eventually.

New 72 pin connectors that are made in Asia are commonly available. These connectors do not appear to carry a brand and the location of the factory is unknown. Some connectors have poorly manufactured contacts and a very high insertion force, which causes contacts to scratch and permanently damage games. Internet users have been referring to these as connectors with the 'death grip'. A successful crowdfunding campaign funded the Blinking Light Win in 2014, almost tripling its funding goal. This modification kit replaces the original tray with a tray that can't be pushed down, with new connectors that are technically similar to an NES-101. This effectively eliminates the root cause of the design flaw.

Because:

zero insertion force (ZIF): Zero insertion force connectors are typically used for rigid flexcable. You can do a Google image search on zero insertion force connectors (Molex) to verify. This connector is a PCB card edge connector and makes no attempt at reducing the insertion force, let alone approach zero. I think leaving the ZIF reference out is appropriate.

as well as pressing the cartridge’s ROM board back into the cartridge itself: The cartridge's PCB is pretty well secured in the cartridge and does not move. This part is nonsense. The part about contact bending is true.

and the ZIF design proved more prone to interference by dirt and dust than an industry-standard card edge connector.[86]: Again, this is nonsense, it *is* a PCB card edge connector. The source material is wrong and a google image search is enough evidence to support that.

nickel - removed reference, there is no evidence to support that, also not in the source. I actually think it's iron with nickel and gold plating, but I can't prove it.

and the game cartridge copper connectors were also prone to tarnishing. - This is not an NES design flaw, it is becoming common with old card edge connectors that have been used heavily. The SNES, N64, Segas etc also suffer from this. These connectors are also gold plated by the way, which is your only option in this application, not a flaw.

Many players would try to alleviate issues in the game caused by this corrosion by blowing into the cartridges, then reinserting them, which actually hurt the copper connectors by speeding up the tarnishing.[88][89] - Again, not an NES design flaw, all cartridge consoles suffer from this and there's nothing you can do about it except cleaning.

to wear out -> fatigue - Because that's the scientific term for what is happening. Material fatigue has its own wikipedia page to refer to.

These design issues were not alleviated by Nintendo’s choice of materials; the console slot's connector springs would wear due to design.[87] : After proofreading, I just don't like it.

I've added information about the new asian 72 pin connector. If you need something to refer to, use this blog: https://flake.tweakblogs.net/blog/14365/nes-aftermarket-72-pin-connector-repair-and-review

The Blinking Light Win is not my company but a crowdfunded initiative for this problem deserves a mention on Wikipedia. Kickstarter here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/113891498/blinking-light-win-resurrecting-your-nes Littlegamer87 (talk) 20:49, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 19:35, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Please review: There *are* no scientific sources on this subject and the sources referred to in this article are also unreliable and wrong. I've motivated my changes the best I can in the 'because' section. Please assume good faith, I'm trying to help out here.Littlegamer87 (talk) 09:07, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Not done: If there are no reliable sources on the subject then there's nothing we can do - as per the Verifiability policy, all material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. If you find reliable sources to verify your assertions feel free to reopen the edit request. Pishcal (talk) 23:22, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Nintendo Entertainment System. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-to-end-famicom-and-super-famicom-production/1100-6029220/
• Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e0912.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071105193128/http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jAJfrC1k8lDKLOCGJu4VonjOYxBg to http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jAJfrC1k8lDKLOCGJu4VonjOYxBg
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/june03/dumbestmoments/index23.shtml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

N An editor has determined that the edit contains an error somewhere. Please follow the instructions below and mark the |checked= to true

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:56, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

I found this that we can use for the Nintendo JP source. — Gestrid (talk) 15:05, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with "Dendy (console)"

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

No action, all comments opposed to merging here. In regards to alternate merge target, most opposed on WP:WEIGHT and size grounds. -- ferret (talk) 12:52, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

---

I am proposing to merge Dendy (console) with this article as the Dendy was essentially a version of the NES sold in Russia. In addition, the current Dendy page has multiple issues and could benefit from a merge. Blorper234 (talk) 20:54, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

• It should probably be merged with Nintendo Entertainment System hardware clone rather than this article. --The1337gamer (talk) 21:35, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

• I side with The1337gamer here. Dendy is not notable enough to be featured inside the article for the Nintendo Entertainment System, but Dendy already has its own section in Nintendo Entertainment System hardware clone. I think we should expand on the Dendy section in NES hardware clone's article. Manfred von Karma (talk) 23:01, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

• My bad. I did not even know that article existed. Well, I guess if this discussion ends up merging Dendy with the NES hardware clone article, the articles will be merged. Blorper234 (talk) 19:57, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

• I don't think it should be merged at all due to size. --Pincerr (talk) 00:18, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Oppose per WP:WEIGHT. The article Dendy (console) is too large to be placed as a section in Nintendo Entertainment System hardware clone, and it would occupy a percentage of that article too large. A WP:SUMMARY section there, pointing to the full article would be nice, though. Diego (talk) 17:29, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Oppose. It definitely shouldn't be part of Nintendo Entertainment System. Nintendo Entertainment System hardware clone would be suitable, but like the user above said, the Dendy article is already big. Therefore I don't think it should be merged at all, and kept as is. --Pincerr (talk) 00:18, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Oppose These are not the same console. It would be different if this was the official Russian version (like the NES/Famicom), but it's not. 72.161.84.139 (talk) 21:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed merge with History of the Nintendo Entertainment System

Similar to all the other old console-specific history articles (e.g., History of the Sega Master System), what is unique about this article's sources so as to warrant a split from the dedicated history section in the console's main article? It should only be split out summary style. As of the current sourcing, everything said in this article should be incorporated into the main article, making this history article a duplicative split. czar 20:40, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

This history article is way much larger than History of the Sega Master System. It would make more sense to shorten the History section at Nintendo Entertainment System and move most of it to History of the Nintendo Entertainment System. Diego (talk) 17:34, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm removing the merge tags for this, as no consensus on the discussion in several months. -- ferret (talk) 12:53, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Nintendo Entertainment System. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/6BvTGznwL?url=http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=ConsoleMuseum.Detail to http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=ConsoleMuseum.Detail&id=26&game=5
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081006165957/http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=ConsoleMuseum.Detail&id=27 to http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=ConsoleMuseum.Detail&id=27
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131017023035/http://www.1up.com/features/trials-and-tribulations?pager.offset=1 to http://www.1up.com/features/trials-and-tribulations?pager.offset=1
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120927105841/http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2010/12/gycw-nes-ports-1-contra/ to http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2010/12/gycw-nes-ports-1-contra/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121019163541/http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9026464 to http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9026464
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.nintendoplayer.com/nintendo-world-class-service/
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.nes-wiki.org/wiki/PAL-A

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:54, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

"because the 65xx processors had not previously been made or sold in japan"

the 'because 6502 processors had not been previously sold in japan' statement is incorrect. 6502 processors have sold to every corner of the world straight from the start and still do just that, with pretty much every single company that had a chip producing line at least producing a few versions of it over the past 4 decades or so.

Der Commodore MAX, ebenfalls bekannt als Ultimax in den USA und VC10 in Deutschland, war ein Computer, der von Commodore International in Japan entworfen und verkauft wurde. Im Jahr 1982 war er ein Vorgänger des bekannteren C64.

say whut? (that's 3 years before the NES).

now if you insist on it being a stink normal nmos 6502 with standard pinouts, there is this thing: VC-1001, Japanese VIC-20 Introduced October 1980

and probably 100s more of lesser known makes.

plenty of 6502 and derivative systems sold and also partially -made- in japan. even before that. quite a few of which also specifically for the japanese markets.

nintendo not having a 'cross development platform' at that time therefore is their own fault.

considering the fact that the first production batch of 6502s ever was made in a factory in korea in 1975 (the white ceramic ones) which is right next door it would be kinda odd for there to be 'no 65xx processors having been sold in japan' prior to nintendo developing the famicom/nes. it's just factually incorrect. as for the actual processors not having been made in japan before that time, probably incorrect too, as they also went into quite a few tvs and vcrs (and still do that) all throughout the 1980s in various custom microcontroller shapes, which -are- made in japan.

the chips in the nintendos lack the BCD decimal mode and therefore are not complete 65xx cores. but it's close enough. (nintendo probably would like to avoid court cases on the 'close enough' part) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.109.195.152 (talk) 12:40, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I guess you missed how this statement applied to earlier development efforts, which began as early as 1980, rather than the actual product launch in 1983. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to an adjustment of "few" rather than "no", since this and most of that entire paragraph are unsourced. -- ferret (talk) 13:03, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Release

The text says:

"Following a product recall and a reissue with a new motherboard, the Famicom's popularity soared, becoming the best-selling game console in Japan by the end of 1984."

"Encouraged by this success, Nintendo turned its attention to the North American market, entering into negotiations with Atari to release the Famicom under Atari's name as the Nintendo Advanced Video Gaming System. The deal was set to be finalized and signed at the Summer Consumer Electronics Show in June 1983."

How can the success in late 1984 encourage something that was to happen in June 1983? Either the date is wrong or there's no connection between these two events and the text should be changed accordingly.

--5.231.148.79 (talk) 11:53, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

No video game screenshots?

Perhaps this should be one of the first things a reader sees, rather than being completely omitted from the article. I would suggest including Super Mario Brothers somewhere close to the very top. 13:16, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

This article is about the system, not the games on it. That would be an unnecessary non-free image and would be deleted. --Masem (t) 13:37, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm not really sure how anyone's logic can suggest the Nintendo was anything but a video game machine and that video game screenshots are somehow not relevant to this topic. What is really going on here? And there are plenty of games which don't hold any commercial licence anymore. May I suggest posting something like Bible Quest?

• I see no one has responded to this comment. Anyway, this article is for conveying information. This topic, the Nintendo Entertainment System, is a device which solely exists to output graphical images. What this article is not - is not just a website to look pretty and neat for commercial interests, specifically for Nintendo Corporate, or whatever else. Please consider how absurd it may be to exclude any screenshots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.82.62.127 (talk) 06:29, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Removal of 'EU' release date

I was not aware that the infobox on the en.wiki subdomain for video games was only for JP/English speaking countries, so I think it is a good question whether there is any sense to list the 'EU' release date as 1986?

Some factors to consider: The 'PAL-A' region consisted of Australia, the UK, and Italy. The NES was released in 1987 in these countries. The 'PAL-B' region was the rest of(mostly) Europe.

Given that PAL-B was non-English speaking, should it be removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Megamansec (talk • contribs) 00:01, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

"Intendo Entertainment System" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Intendo Entertainment System. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 15#Intendo Entertainment System until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Regards, SONIC678 04:52, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

US launch price

The reference for the $179 US launch price is a book I can't check. ( Levin, Martin (November 20, 1985). "New components add some Zap to video games". San Bernardino County Sun. p. A-4.)

This is for the US Deluxe set and if I'm not mistaken, it's the pack with ROB, the zapper, 2 games…

I found this reference on the web : https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Launch_price It says that it cost $199 for the basic set with Super Mario ans $249 for the Deluxe Set.

Can anyone check the 1st reference?

sseb22 (talk) 11:21, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Lockout section

The Lockout section states:

The Famicom as released in Japan contains no lockout hardware, which led to unlicensed cartridges (both legitimate and bootleg) becoming extremely common throughout Japan and East Asia.[47] However, these unlicensed cartridges did not threaten Nintendo's position in the market, as they had established the "Nintendo Seal of Quality" labeling for licensed games to assure consumers of the quality of the game product.[48]

These two sentences do not belong together. They start by speaking of Japanese hardware and bootleg games in Japan and East Asia, but then it suddenly segues into "Nintendo Seal of Quality" which AFAICT did not exist in Japan nor Asia -- only in North America and Europe. If someone could be so kind to fix this paragraph or at least put a tag on it. (I can't, due to the semi-protected status.) --88.114.12.95 (talk) 14:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Here in the Philippines, Famicom cartridges with the "Nintendo Seal of Quality" were sold officially by Nintendo (or their official partner). However, it did not have any significant impact as implied by the quoted "Lockout" statement. I still remember a lot of the theories on how to spot an official cartridge versus a bootleg instead of relying only on the "Nintendo Seal of Quality". —ᜌᜓᜃᜒ (Yuki|雪亮) (talk | Contribs) 23:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I've changed the wording from the above after reviewing the source that was used so as of today (28 Jan) it should be reflecting what Liabcoms is saying. Yes, we can confirm that SoQ was used in Asian regions but as the source says, but it didn't stop the threat of bootlegs despite Nintendo's intention; bootlegs flourished and helped to extend the Famicom well into the Super Famicom's launch window. --Masem (t) 23:54, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Huh?

This line makes no sense:

"Nintendo seeded these first systems to limited American test markets starting in New York City on October 18, 1985, and followed up with a full North American release in February 1986.[25] The nationwide release came in September 1986."

So, when was the NES a full nationwide release, February 1986, or September 1986? Sources like this seem to point to September with the line "Sales soared domestically, and after a year of market testing in select U.S. locations, the Nintendo Entertainment System—renamed and redesigned for the American market—was released nationwide in September of 1986."

https://www.history.com/news/super-mario-history-nintendo-donkey-kong-facts

If there's any way to remove that "February 1986" part, that would clean up this article quite a bit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:3AE0:4760:D69:40EE:1CC7:3060 (talk) 01:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I disagree; I believe the February 1986 release is accurate and that the September date needs to be removed; this review on the NES from The Seattle Times was published on April 13, 1986, clearly after February and before September. Also, per WP:NPPSG, History is an unreliable source since it is well known for promoting conspiracy theories. --SmartAn01 (talk) 04:35, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Upon further inspection, I am mistaken; the Seattle Times article noted that the console was not released at that point. Also, according to this article from September 27, 1986, via The New York Times, the console did release nationwide in September 1986, but had another test launch before that in Los Angeles in February. I will go correct the info now, but I maintain that History is not a reliable source, so please try to find a more reliable one before bringing an issue like this up again. --SmartAn01 (talk) 05:01, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

"Family Computer" / "Famicom" and the Philippines

Just an additional information: The Nintendo® Family Computer™ (which we also called "Famicom") was also officially released and sold here in the Philippines in 1986/1987. Super Mario Bros. and Bomberman were the flagship games. Sometime '87 or '88, there was a Super Mario Bros. competition (which I joined), and later there was also a promotional competition for Bomberman, if enough players finish Bomberman solo, Lode Runner will be officially released and sold in the Philippines.

The NES game system was never sold officially here in the Philippines, however, "balikbayans" (relatives abroad visiting the Philippines) were bringing it here as a gift only to discover we already have the Famicom. Then Super Famicom was officially sold locally but was not received well. "Balikbayans" in turn brought the SNES system. The local battle became "Famicom vs SNES" in the early 90s. The problem with the NES/SNES brought here, there are no games available locally since the Famicom system was the standard console platform. Of course bootleg games for Famicom were also popular here and some stores started importing NES/SNES games from North America.

Anyway, I'm not sure how you can use the above information for the article but I only want to clarify the assumption that the Famicom was only sold officially in Japan, and outside of Japan it was the NES.

—ᜌᜓᜃᜒ (Yuki|雪亮) (talk | Contribs) 23:05, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately the above info cannot be used for the article as it is original research, which is not permitted per Wikipedia's policies. If you would like it to be added to the article please provide reliable sources stating the above info. Blaze The Wolf | Proud Furry and Wikipedia Editor (talk) 15:03, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Merger proposal of Twin Famicom and Famicom Titler articles into NES or related article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

In the past day or two, I tried to clean up both the Twin Famicom and Famicom Titler articles, and upon further examination, I have concluded that expanding both of them is not feasible using reliable sources like those in WP:VG/S and that they do not meet WP:NOTE in their current states. My attempts to look up info on them from reliable Japanese publications did not result in as much valuable info as I had hoped, so I think a merger of both articles into the NES article or another appropriate article would be apt given the circumstances; my idea is to integrate them into the Hardware section much like how the JVC X'Eye and Sega CDX are mentioned in the Sega Genesis article. I am currently uncertain on how to implement this process, so I would like some input in reaching a consensus on this proposal. --SmartAn01 (talk) 07:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I would suggest drafting this up first but an article compariable to Atari 2600 hardware would make sense as a merge point for those, as long as it includes the other NES/Famicom variations (not unlicensed clones) and hardware stuff. --Masem (t) 13:00, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I took a look at the CPU and other console variations that have articles, and I think most of them do not meet notability trying to use reliable sources. While I think there may be a chance at massively improving the New-Style NES article, I feel that other articles such as the one on the Ricoh 2A03 and the Sharp Nintendo Television should be merged as well since they do not have enough reliable sources to make them substantial enough as separate articles. I did create a draft article on the NES hardware at your suggestion, so I would like your input on how that article should be structured. --SmartAn01 (talk) 09:07, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Agree with this approach. The current Nintendo Entertainment System article is massive, and merging this into that would decrease readability for that article. --Mbrickn (talk) 10:29, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

@Masem I have the NES hardware article ready for publishing, but ferret indicated that the technical specifications section would be problematic; I'm fine removing it if needed. As an alternative to the proposed Famicom article, I propose that physical and technical differences between the Famicom and NES be covered in that article instead. SmartAn01 (talk) 04:37, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Updated proposal for Nintendo Entertainment System models

Since this discussion has gone stale, I'm reviving it to include the Sharp Nintendo Television, New-Style NES, and PlayChoice-10 articles in the proposal along with the articles in the original proposal; all of them would be merged together, separate from the NES article. Based on the remarks made as of now, it seems that there is no significant opposition to such a move, but I hadn't included merge notices on the articles for the television, redesign, and arcade models until now; I'm leaving the Nintendo VS. System article alone since, in my opinion, it has enough notable information that is reliably sourced to warrant its own article. (Pinging Masem, Mbrickn, and ferret for discussion.) SmartAn01 (talk) 04:02, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

The creation of a new article for NES hardware is fine with me. I'm unsure about merging the articles to the new location as I'm not an expert in English Wikipedia merge rules. Mbrickn (talk) 15:56, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

@Mbrickn I have the draft article ready to upload to mainspace, so it would only be a matter of changing the aforementioned articles to redirects since I already merged relevant information from each of them into the draft article. As for the talk pages, all of them are tagged under the purview of WP:VG/Nintendo; the television article is also tagged under WP:ELEC and WP:TV, but I'm not sure if it is qualified for the latter given that it is intended for TV programs. SmartAn01 (talk) 18:42, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposal to create a separate entry for the Family Computer (Famicom)

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Closing discussion as no consensus This discussion has run for more than 90 days & has been stale for two weeks. See WP:NACRFC Peaceray (talk) 04:08, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

---

I would like to propose a suggestion about creating a separate article for the Family Computer (Famicom) as I believe it has its own identity outside of simply being a Japanese Nintendo Entertainment System (NES). For a long while both the Famicom and NES have shared the same page on English Wikipedia, however over on Japanese Wikipedia both the Famicom and NES have separate articles. You could argue that the Famicom is no different than just another regional console such as the PAL NES systems, however unlike the NES the Famicom has vastly more differences such as both controllers on the Famicom being hard wired into the system, the second player controller having a microphone and lacking start and select buttons, the 15-pin expansion port on the front that were used for accessories such as the light gun and third party external controllers, and the 60-pin cartridges having a unique and colorful look to them compared to the 72-pin tall grey carts. On top of that the Famicom Disk System was only released in Japan and on Wikipedia when clicking Family Computer in an article about the Famicom Disk System it directs me to another article that is mainly about the NES which is confusing, especially when you consider the bootleg Famicom clone console Dendy has it's own separate entry. This also goes for any Famicom games on Wikipedia that never received an NES release. Bro3256 (talk) 05:26, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support Per nom's argument. The Japanese Wikipedia does indeed have 2 articles rather than mashing them into a single article. If an article is created it should be continued from Nintendo Family Computer which saw a merge into this article in 2004, although it would need a 100% rewrite from the original content as well as likely a move to Famicom per WP:COMMONNAME. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:24, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. Based on the rationale put forward, I'm not seeing why we need two separate articles to cover these differences. So the consoles looked different and have slightly different control ports, wiring, etc, is that super meaningful? They're the same thing under the hood, and have essentially the same game libraries (notwithstanding localized / regional releases, which is not itself a requirement for separate articles). Remember also that these articles should not merely focus on technical details like expansion ports but also development history, cultural influence, reception, legacy etc - all of these things make most sense when the NES and Famicom are taken as a whole, IMO. Popcornfud (talk) 17:31, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

  To elaborate the Famicom and NES have completely different contexts regarding their history and taking them both in all at once is confusing IMO. Both systems left completely different cultural impacts so you can't really take what happened with the NES and apply it to the Famicom because the Famicom has its own context. I mainly focused on hardware differences in my original argument because from the past talk history I've read about others proposing a split, it was rejected for simply being a "Japanese NES". Bro3256 (talk) 14:35, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. I don't see why we'd create a separate article for the exact same system. JOEBRO64 22:44, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Note - It is true that many details are commingled, however they are also distinct, running in parallel. It is worth noting that the history of the Famicom is far longer then that of the NES, yet the history of the NES is far more global then that of the Famicom. Additionally while the systems more or less shared a game library, the accessory ecosystem for both is almost entirely distinct. A unmodified Homework First will never work in a Famicom, nor will an unmodified Family Computer Network System work with a Nintendo Entertainment System. At the same time, separating the articles may (counter-intuitively) reduce the prominence of the Famicom in English Wikipedia readership, doing the reader a disservice. But then again, perhaps the reader would like to only read about the NES, or only read about the Famicom, with sporadic passing references to the other instead of an interwoven text? A pickle for certain. Mbrickn (talk) 06:46, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

• Support. As many people have pointed out, the two consoles have many differences contrary to the popular opinion. Guyfromearth2 (talk) 16:52, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
• Note The Japanese Wikipedia has separate articles for Super Famicom and Super Nintendo Entertainment System as well. They had separate cultural impact and market. The Super Famicom was the dominant player in the Japanese Market, and had cute marketing, while the Super Nintendo Entertainment System was competing with the Genesis, and had darker marketing. They had different peripherals, with many Super Famicom peripherals never coming to the SNES. Shall we create a separate entry for the Super Famicom as well?

Techie3 (talk) 16:08, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

In general, the English Wikipedia coverage of video games is way better than the Japanese Wikipedia. We shouldn't be using Jawiki as a model, unless you want to point out examples of where they're definitely doing it better. (Their Super Famicom article ain't so hot.) Popcornfud (talk) 16:18, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose Far too much overlap in the consoles to make a split manageable. --Masem (t)

I'm very mixed on this. They are kind of the same console, as they play the same games. The only differences are the name and the design of the console. Thomasfan1000 (talk) 12:45, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support. The Famicon and NES had separate cultural impacts and now have experienced two different levels of nostalgic comeback. They might be the same console under the hood but the vintage gaming community would not want the famicon to be forgotten in America. Moozgooz12 (talk) 11:26, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
• Support The NES and Famicom were released in two completely different markets, One market was only just starting recovering from too many systems and lack of quality control while the second market was about to explode. It not the fact that the systems had different wiring, It's that the fact that the systems had different affects on their respective markets. User:Landthins15^{(Dubious-Discuss)} 01:01, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
• Support Regardless of how similar the NES and Famicom were, they were made differently for different markets. I agree with Mbrickn reasoning about the differences between the Famicom and the NES, and Bro3256's reasoning. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 12:47, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
• Support: There are many aspects in which the two systems differ, not only in technical specifications and design, but also in the cultural and marketing situation, which would justify an own article. I think when the New-Style NES has its own article, the Famicom should have one as well.--Maxeto0910 (talk • 13:01, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

  I'm in the process of creating a new article for the NES hardware, so I would prefer to wait until that article is ready to publish and evaluate then before making a move. Also, making the case with the New-Style NES would be moot as I also plan on merging that article into the NES hardware article. SmartAn01 (talk) 20:21, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

  @SmartAn01 You should be aware that Nintendo Entertainment System technical specifications already existed and is redirected. There is a general consensus at WP:VG that such technical specification articles violate WP:NOT and go into too much detail without enough reliable secondary coverage. -- ferret (talk) 20:31, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

  @Ferret: I was going off of the advice Masem gave me when I proposed the merger of the articles for Famicom variants. If we need to remove the technical details, I'm willing to remove them while continuing the merger of the Famicom/NES variant articles. SmartAn01 (talk) 20:43, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose While there are notable differences between the Famicom and NES from a physical and hardware perspective, they could all be compiled under the NES hardware/variants article I am currently drafting. Aside from that, I don't see how their reception and legacies in their respective markets warrant a separate article, especially with the length of those subjects in the NES article as-is. SmartAn01 (talk) 06:05, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

  Context in terms of the history of the Family Computer and NES are completely different. It's important enough to separate them into their own article as the impacts both systems left in their respective territories while similar are not comparable. There is a lot more that can be added to a theoretical Family Computer article where as a short mention of it in an NES hardware article is hardly enough to convey the Family Computer than just a "Japanese NES". Bro3256 (talk) 06:15, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

  @Bro3256 I understand what you're trying to say, but the problem here is that, from my perspective, there is a lack of reliable sources that cover the extent of the Famicom's impact (at least in English); even if what you say is true, it must be verified by reliable sources, and original research is not allowed. If you're still convinced of its necessity, I would suggest starting a draft article to see if there is enough coverage from reliable sources in both Japanese and English to write about and have it long enough to warrant a move to mainspace. SmartAn01 (talk) 07:04, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

  There are plenty of reliable sources that do not fall under original research as there are countless magazines and news coverage along with many interviews that while hard to find on the English side of the internet do exist and are absolutely reliable sources. I am not suggesting the use of original research if a new article is created, and if I need to prove that with a draft article than I will go ahead and draft a Family Computer article if you wish. Bro3256 (talk) 07:17, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

  @Bro3256 Feel free to create the draft article; no one should be able to delete it as long as you make steady progress with it. I will note that, per WP:COMMONNAME, the draft article's title should be "Famicom", even if Nintendo itself referred to the console as the "Family Computer". Also, I would suggest being careful of making statements involving the interviews per WP:PSTS. Otherwise, I wish you good luck. SmartAn01 (talk) 07:38, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. It's a single product and for completeness would need to cover its impact/reception in both Japan and abroad. If a section on its impact in Japan meets the criteria for WP:Summary style split then so be it, but that's not the fork we're discussing. Expand the article with reliable sources and then let's discuss the need for a split based on WP:undue weight. czar 16:18, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - far too much redundancy for a second article. A section within the existing article is more than enough. Sergecross73 msg me 19:23, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"NES Controller (Basic)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect NES Controller (Basic) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 8#NES Controller (Basic) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:04, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

"Regular Nintendo" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Regular Nintendo and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 8#Regular Nintendo until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:15, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

"Nes modding" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Nes modding and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 8#Nes modding until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

"RP2C02" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect RP2C02 and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 8#RP2C02 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:46, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

"RP2C07" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect RP2C07 and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 8#RP2C07 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:46, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

"Masayuki Kamimura" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Masayuki Kamimura and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 8#Masayuki Kamimura until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:53, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

".nes" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect .nes and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 8#.nes until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 15:04, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

"Home Video Computer" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Home Video Computer and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 9#Home Video Computer until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:07, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

"Samurai Electronic TV Game System" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Samurai Electronic TV Game System and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 9#Samurai Electronic TV Game System until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:36, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

"The Family Computer" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect The Family Computer and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 9#The Family Computer until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:40, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

"Family Computer" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Family Computer and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 9#Family Computer until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:42, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

"Nintendo ETS" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Nintendo ETS and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 9#Nintendo ETS until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:48, 9 November 2022 (UTC)