Talk:Norfolk, Virginia/Archive 2

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Pronunciation redux

It really bothers me that the traditional local pronunciation of "Norfolk" doesn't appear in the article. I have lived in the city since 1997, and the "Naw-fək" pronunciation is extremely common among locals. It appears to have been in the article at one point, but was removed (in a "minor" edit) in May 2011. Perhaps it merits a section of its own in the article. Rklear (talk) 15:22, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree with User:Rklear that this article should contain information regarding the local pronunciation of the city's name. As a native of Norfolk who maintains ties to the city, I am also aware that the "Naw-fək" pronunciation is extremely common among local residents. From the staindpoint of Wikipedia precedent, I have previously added similar information to the Miami, Oklahoma article, another city I have ties to regarding the local pronunciation of the city's name which has gone largely undisputed since I added it several years ago. --TommyBoy (talk) 06:51, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Per my comments above, I obviously agree as well. The primary local pronunciation should be noted, and I can't believe I missed that "minor" edit in 2011. I'm acting boldly.Kubigula (talk) 00:16, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Sure enough, it only took two days for a clueless outsider to delete it again. I've reverted. Let's see how long that lasts. Rklear (talk) 05:11, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

You might not be familiar with the diaphonemic transcription standard used for English words on Wikipedia, so I'd like to bring you up to speed: we transcribe words in a (somewhat artificial) "dialect-neutral" standard, and one of the more salient details of this is rhoticity: even though many speakers only pronounce an /ɹ/ when it's followed by a vowel, we transcribe it anyway, because the others can simply drop it. People from the Tidewater are traditionally nonrhotic, so the /r/-less pronunciation is the expected form. We don't need to clutter the opening of every placename article with needless repetition of predictable local pronunciation variants. I decided to use the pronunciation respelling NAWR-fək instead of the equivalent NOR-fək in hopes of this being more palatable to the nonrhotic Norfolkians' intuition of it as /ˈnɔːfɨk/ NAW-fək. — ˈzɪzɨvə (talk) 13:10, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I am all for maintaining uniformity in articles, but this treatment doesn't make sense to me. In the event that there is an unusual local pronunciation (which Norfolk clearly has, as countless visitors have commented), we best serve our readers by providing that information rather than the artificial dialect-neutral pronunciation. To my mind, the dialect-neutral version is what the reader could presumably predict for themselves. Perhaps we could follow the model of New Orleans and show a dialect-neutral and local pronunciation.--Kubigula (talk) 19:27, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

As noted in my previous comments in this discussion, I previously added similar information to the article on Miami, Oklahoma, which has not been disputed, but expanded upon by "pronunciation experts" since I added it back in March, 2005, and I would encourage participants in this discussion to read that article, and use it as example of how to include the local name pronunciation information in this article. --TommyBoy (talk) 21:48, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

How does the local pronunciation differ from the /ˈnɔrfɨk/ listed, other than the aforementioned dropping of the /r/? And even without this variation, it would be helpful to point out to the naive reader that it's not /ˈnɔrfoʊk/. — ˈzɪzɨvə (talk) 00:48, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

There are two problems here: 1) speakers of the Tidewater accent *never* pronounce the r in the first syllable, just as they never pronounce the l in the second. Why should a guide to pronunciation show one silent consonant but not the other? 2)the Tidewater pronunciation is no longer standard, and not even in majority use any more; it competes in contemporary local use with the more conventional NOR-fək and with the dreaded NOR-FOKE, which, like it or not, has a significant share of speakers. It seems to me that all three of these should be reflected; an encyclopedia article should be descriptive, not prescriptive. Rklear (talk) 01:51, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind my example of Miami, Oklahoma, User:Xyzzyva went and changed that article too. --TommyBoy (talk) 07:21, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I've discussed this privately with Xyzzyva on his (I presume) talk page, but reached no firm resolution. In the absence of agreement from him, I have restored my earlier IPA transcription (reformatted using the Wikipedia IPA template) of the Tidewater pronunciation, along with Xyzzyva's transcription of the General American pronunciation. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 19:23, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Structure

Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 16:30, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Uniformity among similar articles is desirable in my opinion. Go for it.

J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 17:58, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Integrated Private Schools? Prove it!

The article asserts, "By contrast, Norfolk's private schools had voluntarily integrated by choosing to comply with the Brown decision." What schools does this refer to? Most private schools in 20th C. (and 21st C.) Virginia were started up after Brown to offer all-white alternatives to integrated public schools. Norfolk Academy pre-existed Brown, but when did it first admit a black student?

Moreover, since Brown specifically targeted State action, exactly how are private schools supposed to have complied with it?

I find the statement dubious, and plan to delete it unless somebody supports it with published authority. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 21:01, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Nobody has come forward with evidence to support the assertion, so I have deleted it. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 13:42, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

They are not integrated. We do have private black schools and private schools which are majority white, if not complete white. Americans see education as a business rather than an investment, which is why Education is entirely and fundamentally broken in the United States. Hyper Capitalism, you gotta love its Venetian after taste. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8805:1600:367:F5A4:ECBC:B4B6:266A (talk) 16:55, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Timeline of Norfolk, Virginia

What is missing from the city timeline? Please add relevant content. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 12:23, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

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List of mayors

Merger of Culture in Norfolk, Virginia

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Merge Fredlesaltique (talk) 04:38, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

I want to propose that the article Culture in Norfolk, Virginia be merged/redirected to Norfolk, Virginia#Arts and Culture (or Norfolk, Virginia, I don't know if you can do specific sections).

Reasons: 1) they have the same information, 2) the Norfolk article is better worded, 3) the Norfolk article is more frequently updated and edited, and 4) the Culture article has sections like Sports and Parks that are already in the Norfolk article

Example from Culture:

Norfolk is the region's cultural heart and in addition to several outstanding museums, is the principal home for several major performing arts companies. Norfolk also plays host to numerous yearly festivals and parades, mostly at Town Point Park in downtown.

Example from Norfolk:

Norfolk is the cultural heart of the Hampton Roads region. In addition to its museums, Norfolk is the principal home for several major performing arts companies. Norfolk also plays host to numerous yearly festivals and parades, mostly at Town Point Park in downtown.

Cheers, Fredlesaltique (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2021

This edit request to Norfolk, Virginia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Grammar error: In the middle of the third paragraph in the opening section, it says: "It home to Maersk Line, Limited" that should have an "is" between "It" and "home." TheZinator (talk) 16:11, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Done. Volteer1 (talk) 16:20, 7 March 2021 (UTC)