Talk:Norval Marley

English or Welsh?

Also trying real hard to be jewish. His jewishness is not documented correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.101.118.185 (talk) 14:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC) Someone recently added "or Welsh" here, and I came across it whilst disambiguating the word. " A Jamaican, he was supposedly a Jew of either English or Welsh descent.". The BBC makes it fairly which of those it was:

• "Norval Marley was, indeed, born in Jamaica, to an English father from Sussex." ([1])
• "misunderstanding occurred because Norval had been based in Prees Heath and Oswestry during the conflict, which the Marley family had thought were in Wales. They're not; they're in Shropshire, although they are known as the Welsh Marches" ([2])

There is nothing about religion mentioned, so I think that should stay on the talk page until we have a cite for it too.

Telsa 00:22, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

190 years old!?

"^ Year of birth presumed on the basis of the information that he was 190 years old when he died in 1955." huh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.68.243.73 (talk) 23:10, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

1885

Norval's father (Bob's grandfather) died in 1885. Therefore Norval must have been born before 1885 rather then after. Look it up. Polozooza (talk) 08:39, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

His father could have died the same year as his son was born, you know, even before he was born. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.185.104 (talk) 10:28, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

/* Birth, Marriage, Father, Death */
The marriage certificate of Norval Sinclair Marley to Cedella Malcolm, dated June 9, 1944, states that Norval's father was Robert Marley and gives Norval's age as 50. His death is given as 1955. A Robert Marley married Ellen Bloomfield, 23 Sep 1878 in Clarendon parish, Jamaica Starfruit2017 (talk) 07:06, 7 January 2017 (UTC) M. Lee

Hearsay

Most of the references to Norval Marley are hearsay and I would suggest are not reliable - indeed I would suggest that he doesn't warrant a separate article under Wikipedia:Notability criteria. Starting with his age none of the sources agree with his age when he died or when Bob was born but checking his service record on Ancestry and Polozooza comment above suggests that he was born c1885 - it would be useful if someone could find a birth or baptism certificate (ages on death are very unreliable). The article was contradictory saying that he joined the army and as a captain in the Royal Marines! His service record confirms that he did join the army in Liverpool in August 1916 but as a private in the Labour Corps. There is no evidence from the Army of Navy Lists (which list all officers in the Army, Navy and Royal Marines) that he had been a commissioned officer. May be he had been a 'captain' but it wasn't in the British army or Royal Marines. I started putting some archival / original research notes on Norval Marley on The National Archives wiki. --GGrannum 19:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GGrannum (talk • contribs)

Correct. I have also seen this mistake been made in the Bob Marley-article. It has to be fixed everywhere or else it is of no use. I am glad to see I am not the only one who noticed these contradictions. Polozooza (talk) 10:08, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Jewish ancestry

I read on the page History of the Jews in Jamaica that Norval's son, Bob Marley, had a Jewish grandmother. I presume it would be from his paternal side, thus Norval Marley's mother would be Jewish, and Bob Marley a quarter Jewish. If this is legitimate, could this be added to this page as well as Bob Marley's? TomUSA 00:02, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

It could be added - if any reliable source could be found (and cited). The idea that there was Jewish (sometimes specifically Syrian Jewish) ancestry has grown but I can not see on what basis.

Norval Marley's mother's name is given as Ellen Broomfield; does either her forename or surname seem distinctively (Syrian-) Jewish? --Nedrutland (talk) 10:59, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/123641/bob-marleys-jewish-father I'm not a member, but here is a source citing Norval Marleys Jewish ancestry — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.22.113.106 (talk) 04:19, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

The Broomfield family is prominent enough in Jamaica, and there is no genealogical evidence that they had Syrian, or Jewish, ancestry. Nothing in Bob Marley's genealogy indicates Syrian or Jewish ancestry, either. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 12:04, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Exactly! Wraith, this should be changed and now! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8004:1BC0:8A2B:A82A:1863:F5DA:115E (talk) 16:12, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

"There is no documented evidence that Bob had Jewish ancestry." https://ethnicelebs.com/bob-marley February 4, 2008 Mcljlm (talk) 18:39, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

English father - but from Sussex?

Albert Thomas Marley was English but where was he from?

Registrations of births, marriages and deaths in England and Wales are indexed on line at http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ For the 50 year period from 1837, when the indexing begins, to 1887 (after the approx birth date of Norval), in the County of Sussex there is not one birth of anyone with both the surname Marley and the first name Albert. Now possibly this is because his forenames have been transposed; in 1861, a Thomas Albert Marley was born in the district of Rye.

However in 1851 an Albert Thomas Marley was born in the district of Billericay, Essex and significantly, a Norval Richard Marley was born in Essex in 1847. Albert Thomas appears in Essex in the Censuses of 1861 and 1871 but not 1881.

A website gives further details, including Albert Thomas Marley, b. South Weald, Brentwood, Essex, England, 29 Oct. 1851, d. Colon, Panama, 1 Feb. 1885.

So, it seems that Norval's father was from Essex while his paternal grandparents were born in Rye, Sussex.

Nedrutland (talk) 13:12, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

The website you provided does not seem very reliable. There are many unofficial biographies that claim he was from -insert false location-. My source clearly states otherwise. Chris Marley, Bob Marley's second cousin, stated that Norval Marley's father was from Sussex, England. Now, unless you can find a source with 100% proof that Albert Marley (the correct Albert Marley) was not from Sussex, please feel free to post it on the talk page before adding it as a source in the article. LatinWolf (talk) 22:10, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I have flagged that "better source"; the current citation is a throwaway comment in local news report. You mention Chris Marley as a a source so presumably you can provide a reference to that (however family traditions are not always accurate). Perhaps you have access to a copy of Catch a Fire: The Life of Bob Marley, by Timothy White. Nedrutland (talk) 07:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

In addition to the primary sources already mentioned (i.e. UK censuses and registrations of births, marriages and deaths), here is a secondary source, a national newspaper, for Albert Thomas Marley's birth in Essex.

The Daily Mail 22 August 2007; "Rumours that Norval was born in North Wales are false. He was born in Clarendon, Jamaica, to Albert Thomas Marley and Ellen Bloomfield. Albert was born in South Weald, Brentwood, Essex, England, on October 29, 1851, and lived with his Sussex-born wife in Sussex before emigrating to Jamaica." Nedrutland (talk) 10:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Captain in the Royal Marines?

The article currently includes "Norval later claimed to have been a captain in the Royal Marines". However the newspaper article cited (The Observer, Sunday 8 April 2012) does not mention the Royal Marines. It does say "Norval Marley, a man who claimed to have been a captain in the colonial Caribbean army, but wasn't." (Possibly the Caribbean Regiment is to be understood by "the colonial Caribbean army") Nedrutland (talk) 11:02, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Constance Marley?

I searched for Norval Marley on Google, and found out that he another child; Constance Marley. I don't know anything about her mother, since it doesn't say anything about her on the panel. Does anyone know who her mom is? Norval Marley only married once. There's no Wikipedia 'bout him (I rely on Wikipedia for information), so this is a mystery. Who will crack it? I mean, someone needs to know!!!