Talk:Oh, Beautiful Virgin Islands

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Lyrics[edit]

Can anyone add the lyrics to this article? This is customary for articles on national anthems. Skinsmoke (talk) 03:14, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

User: Mitch Ames previously deleted the lyrics on possible copyright infringement grounds. I had previously included them. I am not presently qualified or dedicated enough to establish what the real copyright position of this song is as a matter of the laws in the relevant U.S. jurisdiction governing this website. On a practical level, I think this action was overly zealous. After all, this is a national song. To me it seems silly to delete the lyrics on copyright grounds, whatever the theoretical legal position. I also thought it was singling out this song for treatment that other national songs were not receiving so I deleted the lyrics to Hail to Bermuda, God Bless Anguilla and Beloved Isle Cayman on the same copyright grounds. I am hopeful with several songs now deleted, some one who is appropriately authorative and knowledgable will make an assessment of the real copyright position here / relevant custom and practice. Hopefully the lyrics of all four songs can then be included. All the best. Anegada (talk) 13:57, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion re copyright etc (reprodcued)[edit]

For good order in case others seek to delete the lyrics, I reproduce here some relevant discussion around this topic:

Discussion copied by Anegada with this edit from User_Talk:Mitch Ames#God Bless Anguilla, Beloved Isle Cayman and copyright etc.

God Bless Anguilla, Beloved Isle Cayman and copyright etc.[edit]

On Oh, Beautiful Virgin Islands you previously removed the lyrics on the basis of potential copyright infringement. Learning from your edit, I did the same for some other similar articles. So I removed the lyrics for others including God Bless Anguilla, Beloved Isle Cayman and input the same sort of potential copyright infringement warning you had input on Oh, Beautiful Virgin Islands. My edits have since been reverted. As far as I can see, no copyright information has been provided either. Could you do something about this or at least put these on your watch list to check for vandalism/copyright infringement. Given your concern regarding Oh, Beautiful Virgin Islands, I expect these are also in the exact same category. I’d appreciate your help in making sure we take a consistent and fair approach, not singling out some articles for one higher standard and others for a lower one. Hope you’ll lend your expertise and energy to this. I don't want to be alone in some edit war, trying to respect copyright rules. Anegada (talk) 18:07, 15 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:LYRICS#National_anthems are considered as an exception to copyright under fair use provisions. Gnan garra 00:47, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've no specific reason to doubt Wikipedia:LYRICS#National_anthems, but we should probably sort at the "citation needed" tag. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:57, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please clarify. Does this mean I can put the text of "Oh, Beautiful Virgin Islands" back in after all? You had taken them out on grounds of potential copyright infringement. I don't want to be accused of edit war etc. Anegada (talk) 12:17, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

At the time I removed the lyrics, I wasn't aware of Wikipedia:LYRICS#National_anthems, so I was presuming that WP:COPYVIO would require the lyrics' removal. However, as Gnangarra points out, national anthems are considered "fair use". (WP:NOTLYRICS suggests that the entire lyrics ought not be listed, although for reasons other than copyright.) I can't give a definite answer as to whether the lyrics should go back in or not, but as with any situation like this where this a dispute, it is better discuss to the matter on the appropriate page rather than simply reverting. Normally the appropriate page is the article's talk page, but given that there are several articles, all with the same problem, perhaps you should raise the matter on Wikipedia talk:Lyrics and poetry or Wikipedia talk:Copyright violations. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:19, 17 February

Noted you took out the lyrics before you were aware of the relevant Wiki rule and make no apologies for this. You mention a dispute but I am not aware of any dispute. I will revert your edit, as others have reverted the edit equivalent to yours on other equivalent songs. Needless to say, if you, as the person who originally took out the lyrics, think there is a dispute, I for one am happy to hear what the dispute is and participate to the best of my meagre abilities. Anegada (talk) 14:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

quoting Anegada>You mention a dispute but I am not aware of any dispute.

The dispute I alluded to was the reversion (by someone other than me) of your edits to God Bless Anguilla and Beloved Isle Cayman, that you mentioned in your initial post. User:Gnangarra has pointed out that copyright is not a problem, so I know longer have any concerns about the lyrics that have been restored to Oh, Beautiful Virgin Islands, ie undoing my removal of them. I haven't been involved in editing God Bless Anguilla or Beloved Isle Cayman (although I notice that I have been mentioned in the edit history, presumably because of my edits to Oh, Beautiful Virgin Islands). My suggestion is that if you restore the lyrics to God Bless Anguilla and Beloved Isle Cayman, that you explain why, on the talk pages of those articles. (You may simply link to this section of this page.) Mitch Ames (talk) 13:55, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mitch - I make two suggestions of my own to you: To refrain from editing articles with respect to copyright matters. To humbly acknowledge when your edits are wrong and have caused disruption. Anegada (talk) 23:01, 10 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]