Talk:Ontario Highway 403/Archive 1

Archive 1

References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <references/> tags

External links section

I added external links and references last night due to similarities on OntHighways.com. This page looks fairly similar to what is on that website, so i think the 'references' part should be left up. Just my two cents.--24.103.242.178 03:50, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The only similarity that I really see is that the information is basically the same with respect to the interchanges, which would obviously make sense. I looked up that information myself by looking at maps and by my relative familiarity with the highway, so I wouldn't go as far as to say that the OntHighways.com site was used as a reference. A reference is given when a source has unique information that could not otherwise be obtained from another source (i.e., obscure data or original research). A list of interchanges does not fall under this criteria. Darkcore 04:06, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

No, it certainly doesn't, however, if you were using the OntHighways page for the source then it would deserve a reference. Since you are not, it doesn't. I am sure you would agree that the page layout is quite similar, and you could see how a mistake could be made. Sorry --24.103.242.178 04:50, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Woodstock with Mississauga

The wording in the heading "connects Woodstock with Mississauga" is kind of misleading. It almost implies that the highway that the highway was built to connect these two municipalities. Maybe a wording change to "the 403 connects to the 401 at Mississauga and Woodstock Ontario" would be clearer ? Maybe merge the sentence following the "connects Woodstock with Mississauga" about the connection to the 401 together. Po' buster (talk) 18:35, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Change it to "travels from Woodstock to Mississauga, passing through Hamilton between the two." You only need to change the allusion to the connecting of two cities by this highway. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 21:14, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Chedoke Expressway

What is the origin of this name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.211.168.16 (talk) 13:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't know for certain, but the Chedoke Creek flows out alongside the original section of the 403 between King Street and Princess Point. It's name most likely came from that creek. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 13:59, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Refs and order

• Freeman Bypass constructed ~1958 alongside skyway

• Construction begins from south of Highway 6 (at onramps to York) east to Freeman[1]

• Widening south from 401 in Mississauga.[2]

• Ancaster section opened August 15, 1997[3]

--ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:03, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Ontario Highway 403

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Ontario Highway 403's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "2010 mapart":

• From Ontario Highway 405: Ontario Back Road Atlas (Map). Cartography by MapArt. Peter Heiler. 2010. p. 19. § R34–35. ISBN 978-1-55198-226-7.
• From Ontario Highway 2A: MapArt 2010
• From Ontario Highway 410: Ontario Back Road Atlas (Map). Cartography by MapArt. Peter Heiler Ltd. 2010. ISBN 978-1-55198-226-7.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 22:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Possible Extension of Highway 403?

I haven't found any official documents but there's been a lot of talk extending Highway 403 west from it's terminus at Highway 401 to Highway 402 west of London. Such a route would form the northern connection of London's proposed ring road network (Highway 401/402 make up the south, the Veterans Memorial Parkway the east, and a proposed Westel Bourne freeway in the west). See this image for it's proposed route.

Might be worth looking into. Haljackey (talk) 05:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

There was talk a few years back when London unveiled the 2008(?) transp. plan, which included the ring network. The recent proposal scraps the top part of the ring. From what I can tell, if it is to happen, it is a looooooooong way off (2031+). However, the twinning of 7/8 to Stratford could very well be extended to London, acting as the northern chunk of the ring.

But, it seems to be limited to transportation geek forums at this point in time. I'll send a letter to the MTO asking if there are any plans. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:16, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ontario Highway 403/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dough4872 (talk · contribs) 02:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

---

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   • In the infobox, is it possible to use words instead of dashes for the major intersections?
   • Is it possible to replace the "(continues as Highway 410)" note in the infobox with "Highway 401 / Highway 410 in Mississauga"?
   • In the route description, you use "second concession" and "third concession". Can you explain what these terms mean?
   • Do not use "then" to describe progression of route.
   • "Continuing, Highway 403 and Highway 6 curve north into Hamilton and meet the Lincoln M. Alexander Parkway before abruptly curving to the east and descending the Niagara Escarpment.", maybe specify a direction after "continuing".
   • Why is "Freeman Interchange" italicized?
   • "hydro corridor", shouldn't hydro be capitalized?
   • The sentence "Pressed between residential subdivisions on both sides, the freeway passes beneath Erin Mills Parkway, dips slightly to the south and crosses the Credit River." sounds awkward.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   • The following need citations:

   • "The highway returns to ground level alongside the Chedoke Creek, a now-channelized river from which the freeway may take its name."
   • "The freeway continues straight for several kilometres and meets the Queen Elizabeth Way and Highway 407 at the Freeman Interchange."
   • "A portion east of Woodstock was rebuilt in this fashion, but World War II would put an end to the ambitions of McQueston, at least temporarily"
   • "However, the Brantford Bypass would remain an isolated section of Highway 403 for over 20 years."
   • "This interchange was a better connection point for Highway 403, but would also require the widening of Highway 401 from six lanes to twelve. Plans were submitted and approved in 1978 by Mississauga, and construction began."
   • "This took place throughout the 1980s, and was completed by 1985; The existing outermost ramps from Highway 403 to Highway 401 eastbound were re-designated to serve collector traffic, as a pair of flyover ramps were added inside the interchange to serve motorists in the express lanes."
   • "Construction to bridge the gaps in Highway 403 between Ancaster and Woodstock was carried out over three major phases. The first phase was a short extension of the Brantford Bypass beginning in 1975. Later, work began to connect that extension with Highway 401 near Woodstock, opening in 1988. The last phase, between Ancaster and Brantford, was opened in 1997."
   • "Though some officials considered Highway 403 to be a perfect example of a freeway construction process, it was not built without its share of controversy. Portions of the freeway through Mississauga were built alongside established communities, leading to angry homeowners associations pressuring the province for noise mitigation measures and compensation."
   • "However, this never came to pass."
   • "These projects preceded the widening of Highway 403 between Winston Churchill Boulevard and Highway 401/410, which saw a High-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane added in each direction; the project started in summer of 2004 and these opened on December 13, 2005. The HOV lanes and the dividing Ontario Tall Wall concrete barrier were constructed using the existing right-of-way provided by the grass median. The conventional truss lighting between Eastgate Parkway and Highway 401/410, which had been installed in 1986, was replaced by shoulder-mounted high-mast lighting in late 2004."
   • "The extension was built between 1987 and 1990, incorporating a portion of Fieldgate Drive at the eastern end."

   • Does the Ontario Back Road Atlas show physical surroundings such as development? If not, Google Maps should be used here.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I will place the article on hold to allow for fixes to be made. Dough4872 02:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I'm going through the points now, but figured I'd shoot an initial reply to a few points. I use "then" sparingly for continuity in sentences, and there is no reason it cannot be used (otherwise I'd use "thereafter", which means the same thing). Concession is linked to an article which explains the concept in the first paragraph of the RD (it's too detailed to add to this article IMO). Freeman Bypass is italicized for emphasis as a name as opposed to 'the bypass of Freeman', but I've removed it. Hydro is synonymous with electricity in Ontario and possibly all of Canada, but I've linked to hydro (did have it linked to Ontario's electrical producer/distributor, Hydro One before now) ... but perhaps "electrical transmission corridor" is more appropriate from a global perspective?

As for the sourcing, there are a few that are already covered by the sourcing as the article progresses. Examples include "Construction to bridge the gaps in Highway 403 between Ancaster and Woodstock was carried out over three major phases. The first phase was a short extension of the Brantford Bypass beginning in 1975. Later, work began to connect that extension with Highway 401 near Woodstock, opening in 1988. The last phase, between Ancaster and Brantford, was opened in 1997.", "However, the Brantford Bypass would remain an isolated section of Highway 403 for over 20 years." and "However, this never came to pass" (this last one evidenced by the entire route description).

Hydro is a dab page, so this link needs to be disambiguated. For the sources, I would prefer if the sentence without citations have a citation after them, even if they are covered by citations elsewhere. Dough4872 00:19, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Since hydro corridor seems to have local usage, I created a redirect to the relevant article. Secondarywaltz (talk)

The Ontario Back Roads atlas shows some physical surroundings (ie topography, land use, points of interest), but not everything. The difference between residential, industrial and rural is made obvious though by the colour of the land between roads. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 18:19, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

But does the color of the land show the difference between residential and industrial or does it just indicate the area is developed? In addition, I feel it may be original research to automatically refer to the land not shaded as urban as rural. I would prefer satellite imagery from Google Maps to reference the physical surroundings. Dough4872 00:19, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

No it uses grey for industrial, pink for residential and purple for commercial/offices. Non developed areas are indicated by a light green. I can scan a portion of the book if you'd like to see how detailed it is... Or just let me know which blurbs need the ref fixed and I'll change them to the gmaps ref. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 00:26, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

• I've still got a few citations to add to the history section, but if you have the chance could you strike out what you believe has been addressed just to make things easier? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:43, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I've struck through the addressed concerns. I'm still concerned with the italicization of Freeman Interchange and the dab link to hydro along with the remaining unreferenced statements. Dough4872 03:34, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
    • I should hopefully have these dealt with in 24 hours. Only have the 1978 approval, the officials considering it a perfect process and the noise walls to add refs to at this point. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 15:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
      • Ok, should be all set now I believe. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 01:42, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
        • I will now pass the article. Dough4872 02:35, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Collector-Express

There's no way you can consider the one stretch of highway between the 401 and the 403's first exit a collector-express system. How can you "collect" on a stretch of highway that doesn't even go past one exit ? You cannot "collect" on this highway. Highway 403 only has separate lanes to go to separate destinations around the Highway 401-410/Eglington interchanges. That's it. It is not a collector-express system. UrbanNerd (talk) 23:56, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Highway 403 has collector-express characteristics from Eastgate PKWY to hwy 410/401. Haljackey (talk) 05:26, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Even the MTO refers it as a C/E system: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/trip/traffic_report-peel.shtml#Event6823 Haljackey (talk) 06:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

The eastbound exit to the Eastgate Parkway is a simple exit. The westbound exit to the Eastgate Parkway is a dual exit with Eglinton. To cal this a collector-express system is near criminal. How can one "collect" on this stretch ? You either exit or don't. The only reason there is even a crossover back onto the 403 in this stretch is for the 410 traffic to continue on the 403. I assume there are future plans to continue these lanes to further exits which would then constitute a collector-express system, but at this point one exit is not sufficient to call these a "collector-express" by definition. UrbanNerd (talk) 18:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

The exits to Eglinton Ave and Eastgate Pkwy are two completely separate exits (although they are very close to each other). The 403 is considered C/E by the provincial government. The definition of C/E in the Local-express lanes article has been satisfied. More details over at Talk:Local-express_lanes#Ontario_Highway_403 Backguy (talk) 01:16, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

While not a long distance collector-express system as we've become accustomed to on Highway 401, the section of Highway 403 from Cawthra to Highway 401 divides through traffic from local traffic, which is the general definition of a local-express setup. Highway 400 features this north of Highway 407, and the Gardiner Expressway east of Highway 427. How many "exits" are enough to call a section of roadway local-express? Would the section of Highway 401 between Highway 427 and Highway 403/410, with an access at Dixie and partial access at Renforth not be the same qualification? Do we have any refs to either effect? Like Haljackey, I've always seen the MTO traffic conditions refer to Highway 403 Express and Highway 403 collectors and nothing that disputes that notion.

That said, we should try to find a concrete definition so that all the other minor examples (eg. Conestoga, DVP/401/404) can be addressed with some consistency. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 01:02, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Longwoods Road

The section on the construction of the first section east of the Freeman Interchange currently reads, "Highway 403 between Longwoods Road (Highway 2) and the QEW was opened to traffic on December 1, 1963 at a length of 9.0 km." This reads strangely to me, since there is a section of Longwood Road in Hamilton but as far as I know it has never been signed as highway 2, however Longwoods Road west of London is signed highway 2 (or was, rather). That's much more than 9km away, so the section is definitely not referring to that road. According to TheKingsHighway.ca, "The first phase of Highway 403 was completed and opened to traffic from the Queen Elizabeth Way at Freeman to the Desjardins Canal Bridge in Hamilton on December 4, 1963." I was about to rewrite this replacing "Longwoods Road" with "York Boulevard", but I thought I should post it here instead to get opinions, since I don't have access to the source given in the article. Ivanvector (talk) 16:49, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Back then York Boulevard was known as Longwoods Road, at least according to the source I used. Not sure when the name was changed. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 00:53, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Redundant imagery

Pick one please. The other gets removed or pushed into a gallery. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 14:01, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

STOP reverting numerous edits, STOP introducing template errors

@FobTown: this is getting ridiculous. If you have specific issue you want to add to featured articles that are being reverted, you need to bring it up on talk pages. You cannot be adding a link to the WSP homepage as a reference for a specific project, you need to correctly reference ANY addition to a featured article. The onus is on you, not others. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Some issues like the flyover ramp at 403-407 in Oakville, you're just being too anal about it. FobTown (talk) 19:48, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

@FobTown: Floydian is correct. The burden is on you to provide sourcing for any edits you're making. As this article is an FA, we strive to keep the quality high so that the article can continue to bear its gold star. Floydian is also correct that the homepage of that company's website does not contain the information being cited to it. We need to follow the FA criteria, and make sure that "claims are verifiable against high-quality reliable sources and are supported by inline citations where appropriate". That source doesn't meet the rule because it's not verifiable against the source (it's not in the proffered source), and because corporate websites aren't quite "high-quality reliable sources" as we'd use that term on Wikipedia.

Having said all that, please remember WP:BRD. When you're Bold, but your edit is Reverted, the next step is to Discuss, which is what is going on here. Imzadi 1979 → 19:58, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

+1 --Rschen7754 20:21, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

@FobTown: do you get it now? Bold, revert, discuss. Please adopt this moving forward. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 22:52, 30 November 2021 (UTC)