Talk:Osceola and Renegade

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Florida State University, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Florida State University on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Florida State UniversityWikipedia:WikiProject Florida State UniversityTemplate:WikiProject Florida State UniversityFlorida State University articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Florida Low‑importance

	Florida portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Florida. If you would like to join us, please visit the project page; if you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.FloridaWikipedia:WikiProject FloridaTemplate:WikiProject FloridaFlorida articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Indigenous peoples of North America

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Native Americans, Indigenous peoples in Canada, and related indigenous peoples of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indigenous peoples of North AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaIndigenous peoples of North America articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Osceola and Renegade are not mascots[edit]

i understand the conflict, the Illini might have had a problem but the distinction is that FSU does not have an official mascot. The Seminoles are a symbol of the school and the article must represent this.--68.35.201.31 (talk) 12:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The PC is annoying already. The Seminoles are not the Illini and the Seminole Tribe of Florida has sanctioned the use of the SYMBOLS Of Osceola and Renegade. They are not to be infered upon as mascots. --UkrNole 485 (talk) 12:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just the fact that you are referring to this as Political Correctness shows your bias against this and is not civil. They can sanction the term "symbol" all they want, but conventional definition is mascot. Please see the Talk:Chief Illiniwek#Third Opinion for a relevant discussion and precedence for using both terms. Please keep the POV drama off the article. Justinm1978 (talk) 13:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This rewrite can be seen as a fair compromise, indicating the universities stance as well as the common view. I think it important to acknowledge the position of accepted reference first. This is encyclopedic again I understand the topic has been discussed on another page but the truth of the matter is that the Seminole tribe as stated “these symbols are approved” they did not condone or use mascots. Mascots have a demining tone. This is getting heated for no reason, people sould leave it alone an see to why it was written in a way in the first place.--Nolephin (talk) 16:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If the agreement between the university and the Seminole Tribe use the word symbol, it needs to be cited in order to support article content to that effect. Otherwise, the use of the term mascot in sources means it is also required in the article to maintain a NPOV, just as in the Chief Illiniwek article.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 16:51, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Official position from the University. Osceola and Renegade are not mascots. They are symbols. They do not participate in any traditional mascot activities (pumping up the crowd, playing funny games or tricks, appearing in crowd, etc ). They only participate in thhe pre-football game ritual of planting the spear at midfield. They don't even appear at any other sporting events. Source: https://unicomm.fsu.edu/messages/relationship-seminole-tribe-florida/ Keithelite (talk) 15:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "ritual" of riding onto the field with a flaming spear to the accompaniment of the band playing a hollywood tom-tom beat and the fans doing the tomahawk chop, is precisely the activity that leads academics who write about the topic to classify Osceola and Renegade as mascots. It is these academic sources that have priority on WP, not the university.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 15:28, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On "Osceola through the years" section[edit]

I believe this list is more suited to University PR pages and not appropriate on Wikipedia. What are your thoughts? Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information GreaterPonce665 15:08, 30 June 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GreaterPonce665 (talk • contribs)

Perhaps, but the Chief Illiniwek article also lists all the "portrayers". Of more importance here is that there is no source given for the names and dates for Osceola. Here is a ref for the first: The first student to portray Osceola was Jim Kidder riding Renegade I. Since then, six different Renegades and 16 different riders have made the ride.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 20:35, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link above. I think a statement about & the name of the first Oscelola is more appropriate than an un-sourced list. I'll post this on Chief Illini talk page as well.-- GreaterPonce665 (talk) GreaterPonce665 12:20, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]