Talk:Palladium/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Early comments

Article changed over to new Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements format by maveric149. Elementbox converted 12:30, 6 July 2005 by Femto (previous revision was that of 16:09, 23 June 2005).

Information Sources

Some of the text in this entry was rewritten from Los Alamos National Laboratory - Palladium. Additional text was taken directly from USGS Periodic Table - Magnesium, from the Elements database 20001107 (via dict.org), Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (via dict.org) and WordNet (r) 1.7 (via dict.org). Data for the table were obtained from the sources listed on the subject page and Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements but were reformatted and converted into SI units.

I does not make sense to put one-line definitions of alternative uses of the word after and article of several hundred words. Either put them at the beginning, or make a disambiguation page. 131.183.81.100 20:15 Jan 30, 2003 (UTC)

Automotive catalytic converters should be mentioned ?? -- Joonas

Could someone add a selection about the computer technology Palladium?? (72.240.241.58)

No, other meanings are listed on the separate palladium (disambiguation) page. Femto 11:34, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

If anyone knows, could you add the approximate global production in tons or troy ounces? This information is known for some of the other metals, but isn't mentioned here. Thanks. KellyCoinGuy 06:43, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

My information shows that about 200 tonnes of all 6 platinum metals were produced in 1970, with some 90 tonnes being platinum itself. Palladium would have been rather less.

0 electrons in 5th shell

I modified the page to indicate that the electrons per shell in Pd goes as follows: 2,8,18,0. Previously, the page didn't list 0 in the outer shell. Pd is a period 5 element, and thus I feel it would be best to reflect this in the data box. [1] (mine) and [2] do it this way. Yinon 09:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Of course, good catch! Melchoir 09:28, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Chemically attacked?

What does that mean? It seems a rather obscure colloquialism. Hackwrench 05:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, it is chemist's jargon. It simply means corrosively dissolved.

Platinum Group

Would it be acceptable to declare these as being sometimes called the 'Noble Metals'?

It would be, except that silver and gold are also "Noble Metals", but not in the platinium group.

Conflicting info

The article says this at one point: "Palladium is one of the two metals which can be alloyed with gold to produce White gold. (Nickel can also be used.)"

Which conflicts with the page on White Gold which claims that it can be made by Gold alloyed with Silver as well.

I would think that it should be changed to indicate that Palladium is one of many or that Pd, Ni and Ag are the most commonly used. Pt, Pd, Ir, Rh and Ni all work well to de-colorize Gold. Never tried Os or Ru so I could not say if they will do so... Drrocket 01:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Telecommunications uses

Hi, in the "Applications" section, the bullet point "Telecommunications switching-system equipment uses palladium." seemed a little vague. (It made me wonder where, how and why it was used.) So I googled around a bit and came up with some more specific uses. I hope that's allright. I couldn't find anything specific to telecomm switches though... please provide more specific info if you have any. Infinoid 17:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Palladium was/is used in the contact points of relays to reduce pitting caused by electrical arcs which occur when the relay contact is opened while the circuit is under power. Pd alloyed contacts are used in some motor starter relays. The information with regard to telecommunication switching systems is no longer vaild in the US as these systems no longer use relays using instead solid-state components [computers]. Drrocket 15:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Featured Article?

I've cleaned up the references and external links, converting the ext links to citations. I also cleaned up the list and turned it into prose. Perhaps we can find the remaining citations and then submit it for peer review, then FAC? --Rifleman 82 20:20, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Clathrate

Under the Characteristics heading the following statement is present:


It is thought that this possibly forms palladium hydride (PdH2) but it is not yet clear if this is a true chemical compound.


I find the above statement unsatisfactory - if it can not be defined more precise e.g.:


It is thought that this possibly forms palladium hydride (PdH2) or a clathrate. However, it is not yet clear exactly what chemical entity is formed.


then the statement should be deleted.


  • R. Lässer, K. -H. Klatt (1983). "Solubility of hydrogen isotopes in palladium". Physical Review B. 28 (2): 748–758. doi:10.1103/PhysRevB.28.748.
  • T. B. Flanagan, W. .A Oates (1991). "The Palladium-Hydrogen System". Annual Review of Materials Science. 21: 269–304. doi:10.1146/annurev.ms.21.080191.001413.
  • X. W. Wang, S. G. Louie, M. L. Cohen (1989). "Hydrogen interactions in PdHn (1≤n≤4)". Physical Review B. 40 (8): 5822–5825. doi:10.1103/PhysRevB.40.5822.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  • Z. Sun, D. Tománek (1989). "Cold fusion: How close can deuterium atoms come inside palladium?". Physical Reviews Letters. 63: 59–61. doi:10.1103/PhysRevLett.63.59.
  • L. Schlapbach, A. Zütte (2001). "Hydrogen-storage materials for mobile applications". Nature. 414 (6861): 353–358. doi:10.1038/35104634.

This are some references to hydrogen and palladium compounds, but non of them mentiones the PdH2 as something special.--Stone 10:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


107Ag 107Pd

This review like article could be used as source, but I have to read it first.--Stone 10:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

This might be the original report from 1978.

--Stone 10:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Photography

[3] this is a howto for palladium photography.--Stone 09:18, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Free vs alloyed

The first sentence of the second paragraph currently reads: "Palladium is usually found as a free metal, alloyed with others in the platinum group." I'm not a chemist, but... isn't "free" contradictory with "alloyed?" If not, could someone add some wikilinks to clarify the meanings of these words? Thanks. — Epastore 03:04, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

It must mean not in a compound such as an oxide, as most less inert metals are found in nature. --JWB 08:43, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Electron Shells

Does anyone know how palladium has an empty outer shell while the second in shell contains 18 electrons.Sk8tuhpunk 03:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

It has something to do with the s, p, d, and f orbitals, how it's easier for it to have an empty valence shell and 18 in the next to last shell. 204.16.224.110 21:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, see Electron_shells#Exceptions_in_3d.2C_4d.2C_5d --JWB 08:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Art section not related to palladium processing

I am not sure why the "Art" section is linked to the stub for palladium processing. Palladium processing is a photographic technique, whereas the Art section discusses manuscript illumination. You do not use the same techniques to apply palladium to paper for manuscript illumination as you do for photography purposes. The techniques employed are wholly unrelated. If anything, the link ought to be to the Illuminated_manuscript page. I believe the link should be altered or at least removed from the Art section, but I am reluctant to do so as I am very new to the Wikipedia editing process. Yakityak (talk) 10:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

ISO currency codes

I've restored the information I added once before regarding the ISO currency codes of palladium bullion. IMO it's an interesting and encyclopedic fact, and belongs in this article. A schoolchild researching palladium for a project, for example, would probably not think to check the ISO 4217 article without this paragraph. I don't know why it was removed; If you remove it again, please give some reason here. The articles on the other three ISO currency code bullion metals give their codes. Andrewa (talk) 14:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


External Links

I placed an external link for Palladium Alliance International that was promptly removed. PAI is a not-for-profit organization whose goal is to disseminate information on Palladium's use in jewelry to consumers and the trade. It performs the same function as Platinum Guild International, whose link has been allowed to remain at the foot of the Platinum entry. Either restore the Palladium Alliance International link or insist on also removing Platinum Guild's 19:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC) 19:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC) Christian C.

Jewlery additions

The following two additions to palladium sound like a advertising:

Palladium is very similar to Platinum in the respect that it will not tarnish or corrode under normal conditions. Palladium and Platinum have subtle differences in their looks. Also, Palladium can be worn every day, whereas gold can be damaged my chlorine and and other harsh chemicals.
Palladium, Like its sister metal platinum, palladium is hypo-allergenic, non-corrosive, tarnish-resistant, and extremely rare. A noble metal, it is named for the legendary palladium of ancient myth. A mysterious relic cast to earth from heaven, the mythic palladium found its way to Troy, where it was revered as a safeguard of the city’s invincibility. Indeed, it was only when the palladium was stolen that Troy fell to the Greek army, hidden within a wooden horse. Ever after, cities throughout the Mediterranean world kept a ‘palladium’ as a defender of the state. "palladium" (2008, November 7) Efors.com. November, 8, 2008, from http://www.efors.com/main.htm. Pamp Suisse, a luxury gold refiner in Switzerland has made a line of luxury bars to be worn. Known as “FORS talismans”, these innovative bars were launched in Japan in 2006. Each of the 6 different shapes represents a symbol of good fortune. An optional message of peace, love, joy, health or prosperity is inscribed on the bars in 9 languages: English, French, Italian, Spanish, German, Arabic, Hebrew, Russian and Chinese. Each Talisman can be either in 18k gold or .9995 palladium, the highest purity attainable. "http://www.goldbarsworldwide.com/PDF/RB_6_PAMP.pdf"

We should extract what is usefull and delete teh rest.--Stone (talk) 17:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Removed it, feel free to add back what is verifiable and not simple promotion. Vsmith (talk) 17:40, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Palladium Health

Plladium: Health effects http://coseinteressanti.altervista.org/palladium.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.21.59.67 (talk) 20:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Is it possible

ok i know that this seems weird but if the given information about palladium and most of its links are true then could it be possible to build a device similar or exactly alike using palladium with its hydrogen absorbing properties and an electro catalyst. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soniclink007 (talk • contribs) 07:42, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit

This article needs heavy edition. It repeats itself several times Jtico (talk) 22:34, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

I hope you do no mean the top part, which must summarize the article per WP:LEAD. Materialscientist (talk) 22:39, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

References

--Stone (talk) 10:37, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Value Adds

I worked at my Uncle's Jewelry company and as a Chemist with Electronics Manufacturers and Industrial Testing Labs.

1. had been a quarter of Gold's price for a long time so that use of Gold-Pd and Nickel-Pd alloy platings were considered practical replacements for Gold plated electrical contacts. US military nixed Pd plating due to catalytic ability to ignite flammable vapors in air. The price of Palladium has spike currently and in the past

2. Just as Platinum forms a strong intermetallic compound with Arsenic (requiring re-dissolution to separate) (affected the Platinum crucibles we used). Palladium forms an unseparable intermetallic compound with Tin (which may be your reference to soldering Pd)(we examined using Pd crucibles). Normally soldering is not used in Jewelry. However Palladium is used as Brazing alloy (see [List_of_brazing_alloys]) esp jewelry.

3. The Hydrogen filled Weather Balloon kit I used had a 5% Ag:95%Pd disk to purify the Hydrogen. Hydrogen under pressure will cause embrittlement and fracture of Palladium above H:Pd >1.7 due to phase change and volume expansion; probably caused explosions for those trying to copy Fleischmann–Pons experiment. Hydrogen in Palladium exists as interstitial atoms (protons). Hydrogen itself has a 104 KCal per mole for reaction [ H2 > 2 H ] which is not seen with Palladium Hydrogen absorption.

4. PdO, Palladium Oxide (semiconducting) has been used for field emission cathodes.

Shjacks45 (talk) 17:56, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Palladium/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: I'll review Pd (my 2nd GA review after Cu). I should have comments up soon. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 11:40, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Comments

  • Characteristics section: do we really need that table? The section prose could be improved.
    • Also, I understand the use of a table, but aren't there nicer layouts possible?? Lanthanum-138 (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
  • Some statements (e.g. XPD) are unreferenced Lanthanum-138 (talk) 11:59, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll write more later --Lanthanum-138 (talk) 12:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

  • Improved the history section with published journal article. --Stone (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
  • Do we really need that much in the lead? See rhodium.
  • Right will try to remove the less relevant things.--Stone (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
  • All in all I'd prefer to see a layout such as that of Rh. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 10:51, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
  • The compounds section seems too short. Look at samarium. Although it is much less well known, it has much more compound information. I'd greatly prefer the Sm layout.
  • Will try to improve the compounds section, although To much info on every possible compound might be a little bit much for the elements articles.--Stone (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
  • vanderkrogt.net has more information about the history of Pd stuff, should be very useful for this article (History section) Lanthanum-138 (talk) 12:54, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
  • Improved the history section with published journal article. --Stone (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Review

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    The prose doesn't flow that well in some places, see above.
    Well, it's not actually that bad, so putting it on hold first. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 10:06, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
    OK, good. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 08:59, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    Good work - every para has at least one reference. However there are still some unref'd statements.
    Resolved --Lanthanum-138 (talk) 12:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
    Compounds section could be improved. Also, I would prefer to have separate "physical characteristics" and "chemical characteristics" sections.
    Should be OK now. Adding too much in the compounds section doesn't seem right for articles about the element itself, not the compound. As of now it's quite comprehensive with respect to the major topic of palladium compounds used as catalysts. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 08:59, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
    Also I'd like to see a health issues section, and perhaps split "safety" into "precautions" and "health issues".
    Put more in the safety section and renamed it "precautions". --Stone (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
    Some important bits on the history, particularly the furore caused by Pd being offered for sale instead of being announced in some reputable science journal, aren't included. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 10:45, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
    • Improved the history section with published journal article. --Stone (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
    It's OK, but a few more images wouldn't spoil anything. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 12:05, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
    A lot of useful images have been added, so there's nothing else to say about this. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 10:02, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    It looks more than good enough for me to pass it. Lanthanum-138 (talk) 08:59, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Please verify the glucose strips with reference.

Verified possibilities (however does not state how pure, or if it is combined with another metal):

www.poc.roche.com/en_US/pdf/Evaluation_Report001.pdf

www.basinc.com/library/presentations/pdf/JOH-01.pdf

If anyone has better references, perhaps defining how pure these electrodes are, please contribute.

SmarterThanILook (talk) 21:22, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Pittsburgh Green

Palladium can be quantified by use of the compound Pittsburgh Green. The process of quantification involves reducing all palladium in a given sample to either/both Pd(0) to Pd(II). The palladium catalyzes the ether cleavage of the compound to yield a fluorescent analogue. Fluorescence is then measured to quantify the palladium.

  1. Welch, Christopher J.; Bu, Xiaodong; Koide, Kazunori (2012). "Rapid Analysis of Residual Palladium in Pharmaceutical Development Using a Catalysis-Based Fluorometric Method". Organic Process Research & Development: 121216120618006. doi:10.1021/op3003008.
  2. "Pitt chemist is developing a bright idea".

Looks like a nice method, but no clue if it is well established?

--Stone (talk) 23:38, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Image has camera reflection

The image in the box looks like a reflection of a camera. Anyone have something better? — Epastore (talk) 02:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

The same image with the reflection erased.
@Epastore: Here you go : c:File:Palladium 1-noReflection.jpg. Medium69 from the French graphics lab fixed it. -- Whidou (talk) 14:34, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Iron Man reference

In the movie Iron Man 2, this element was the source of fuel for his chest reactor. Could this be referenced as a note or something? 92.81.169.141 (talk) 10:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Added :) Anu Raj (talk) 15:42, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Link needed to disambiguate the chemical element from the Palladium (classical antiquity)

Onerock (talk) 17:06, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Popular culture

Is this important for the palladium article: "In the 2010 Hollywood movie Iron Man 2, it reveals the power source embedded in the protagonist's chest is slowly poisoning him with palladium." I think no, because this is only fantasy. --Alchemist-hp (talk) 00:36, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

I concur. Imagine how this is going to end up for Pu! Furthermore Pd is not actually a very poisonous metal, so it has little to do with reality.
A good example of this sort of thing, which I would keep, is the reference to Asimov's Sucker Bait in Be, whose toxicity is the main plot point and is real (not just made up for the plot). (Incidentally, beryllium is almost a godsend to SF writers, for whom all the Victorian novel diseases would have been cured...) Double sharp (talk) 01:32, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

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