Talk:Payanam (2011 film)

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Requested move 8 November 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move to Payanam (film). It appears the previous merge was done unilaterally, and consensus is clearly to move it back. (non-admin closure) Bradv 04:03, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gaganam/Payanam (film) → Payanam (film) – Even though this article deals with two films, only one of the two can be the title of the article. Because both were produced by the Chennai-based Duet Movies, Payanam (the Tamil version) should be the title of the article. Kailash29792 (talk) 03:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reasonable. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:21, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It would be misleading for the people who dont know that Gaganam is also known by the name Payanam. Moreover the Telugu version was produced together with Dil Raju productions. If the article should only be with one name there should be seperate articles for both just like Manamantha/Vismayam. SriHarsha Bhogi (talk) 06:37, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The matter is easily resolved with a redirect from Payanam to ~~Havana~~, and with clear prose explaining matters. Having multiple articles for the same film seems needlessly duplicative. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:08, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by Havana?? Harsha 07:13, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Autocorrect fail. Should've been "Payanam to Gaganam". Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:22, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Drive by comment- this is not an unprecendented situation, Nosferatu the Vampyre was made simultaneously in German and English, and both versions were released, but that article is not titled Nosferatu the Vampyre/Nosferatu: Phantom der Nacht and this is no separate article for Nosferatu: Phantom der Nacht. A quick glance at Manamantha and Vismayam reveals them to be classic examples of Wikipedia:Duplicate articles that should not be separate. If it is determined Payanam is the more common name, there's also a question of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC given Payanam (1976 film). Ribbet32 (talk) 07:30, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In the situation which you are talking about, the movie was made in both German & English languages. The English article was named with the movies's English title Nosferatu the Vampyre while the German language article was named with its German title Nosferatu: Phantom der Nacht and the other languages' titles retained the word Nosferatu for the article title but have chosen the other part of the title on their choice. But in the situation of Gaganam/Payanam, the names are completely different and both are of non English titles. Both of the names are equally common in their respective languages & regions. If you feel that the movie's article should only be with one title, the title Gaganam would be apt because it is unique for the movie while the title Payanam causes ambiguity with Payanam (1976 film). Harsha (talk) 17:39, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have a feeling that this is the sort of thing that only an RfC at WT:ICTF is going to resolve. It's already tough getting comments from WikiProject Film. We need to float this across a much wider audience. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:49, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support move to Payanam (2011 film)- appears to be the the WP:COMMONNAME in English after investigating the sources on Google News- Payanam 101 results Gaganam 63 results. Harsha, I know Nosferatu was made in both German and English- that is, in fact, exactly what I said- but we went with the WP:COMMONNAME in English. Same here. As for nonsense concern people who know it as Gaganam won't be able to find it, it will continue to redirect there. I just created Payanam (disambiguation), Payanam (film) should now redirect there. Ribbet32 (talk) 00:27, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think there isn't a huge difference between the number of results to consider Payanam as WP:COMMONNAME in English. Moreover changing the search term a little is varying the number of results greatly. You were searching for Radha Mohan Payanam & Radha Mohan Gaganam while searching just for Payanam or Gaganam is varying the results greatly. SriHarsha Bhogi (talk) 06:25, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You were unable to provide links, but Payanam still came ahead given your suggested searches [1] [2]- and it's irrelevant because there would be a huge number of false leads without the director. What does @Cyphoidbomb: think of this? Ribbet32 (talk) 06:40, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What I think is that this needs to be discussed on a wider scale, as this issue keeps coming up. Some editors would prefer we base the article on the title more related to the "industry" that produced the film. See this. So if it considered to be a Tamil industry production, some editors would prefer that the film be listed under the Tamil name, with Telugu coverage secondary. Naturally everything has to turn into an ethnic something-or-other. Some editors would prefer unique articles for each iteration. Some editors like me are unsure and would like other people to help reason it through. But unless this happens is a wider arena, we'll keep having this issue. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:24, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support. This is not two films, it is one film released in more than one language (at least three, to date). The name for its article should be the most common English name, with other names that occur in English appearing as redirects. By all means involve the Indian cinema task force, but they are bound by the normal naming conventions unless and until a specific topic naming convention is agreed at WT:AT. Andrewa (talk) 08:46, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support move to which proposed title, Andrewa? Payanam (2011 film)? Payanam (film)? Gaganam? Ribbet32 (talk) 18:21, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - I am supporting the move as proposed above, which is to Payanam (film). This would reverse the apparently undiscussed move 19:55, 7 November 2016‎ Sri Harsha Bhogi moved page Payanam (film) to Gaganam/Payanam (film): The movie was named "Gaganam" in Telugu & "Payanam" in Tamil), and restore it at least to a suitable article title format. The question of primary meaning has not been resolved either way above, nor that of common name, and we need to move on. So best to just revert the undiscussed move for now, and keep discussing those other issues. Andrewa (talk) 06:49, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 7 January 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Dane ^talk 03:41, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Payanam (film) → Payanam (2011 film) – The last RM determined the title of the article should reflect the Tamil title over the Telugu Gaganam per WP:COMMONNAME; left unresolved was the disambiguation, given Payanam (1976 film). The last RM attracted low participation, I believe due to the ethnic strife. I opted to wait one month from the close to reopen, but this should be less contentious. Per WP:NCF, if one of these films were the primary topic, it would be at Payanam, but this is the name of a real-world village. Note that during the last RM I already created Payanam (disambiguation). Ribbet32 (talk) 02:57, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:NCF. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 09:29, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination and Lugnuts. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 01:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.