Talk:Peremech

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Requested move 17 July 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by initiator. There is existing usage of the current title in English, and there is a lack of clarity in what characters would be used in an alternate title. Alsee (talk) 07:28, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Peremech → Pәrәmәç – This is the correct original spelling of this dish name. There is no common English spelling for that. I created this page but was unable to choose this title, because it appears on the title black list for unknown reason. I suppose this is due to the combination of a Cyrillic character ә and an extended ASCII Latin character ç. Both characters appear in Tatar Latin alphabet. – Off-shell (talk) 13:46, 16 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Off-shell: This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How much is this dish known of under this name or similar in countries/areas where ә and ç are not in everyday use in spelling? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- The dish is known as беляш (belyash, Russian) in the whole post-Soviet area. In this area Cyrillic alphabets are mostly used. Pərəməç is only used in Tatar language. But since the dish is considered an original Tatar dish, I chose the original Tatar name, as both names are basically unknown in English. The Tatar language has two alternative alphabets, a Cyrillic one and a Latin one. I chose the Latin spelling, similar to Öçpoçmaq.
- I just discovered that letter "ə" is also available in the extended Latin section of Unicode. The word should be written Pərəməç. It looks the same but in fact a different letter code is used. Please use this spelling: Pərəməç, and not the one from my original request. I already corrected the article. The corrected spelling is still blocked by the blacklist. --Off-shell (talk) 06:01, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Does that mean that ә has one Unicode code when used as an International Phonetic Alphabet sign and another when used in Tatar and Azeri etc spelling? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:21, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know which letter should be used in which case. I suppose the one from the Cyrillic part should not be combined with the Latin letters. In general, it is standard, that the same letters appear separately for the Latin and Cyrillic parts, e.g. Cyrillic "Аа" vs Latin "Aa", Cyrillic "Ее" vs. Latin "Ee" etc. At the page Tatar language#Writing system they used one code for the Cyrillic alphabet and the other for the Latin one.
- I also just discovered that the status of the Tatar Latin alphabet is unclear. The Tatar government passed the law to adopt it but this was overturned by the central Russian government. It remains somehow unofficial. Moreover, they seem still to use some different versions of it (there are some chaotic/incomplete explanations in Tatar alphabet#Latin versions). In particular, there is a version where ä is used instead of ə, and ö instead of ɵ. So the current page title Öçpoçmaq is spelled this way instead of Ɵçpoçmaq. Pärämäç would be the alternative spelling for peremech (see Tatar cuisine#Anglicized names of Tatar dishes).
- I also found that anglicized peremech is used in The Oxford Companion to Food. So probably, one can leave the title as it is now to avoid dealing with this mess. --Off-shell (talk) 09:33, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.