Talk:Preaspiration

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Scottish Gaelic[edit]

Re: "is claimed by some to not be phonemically contrastive in any language". What about Scottish Gaelic "aige" /ˈɛkɛ/ (at him) and "aice" /ˈɛʰkɛ/ (at her)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caoimhin (talk • contribs) 14:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's the "general linguistic view" but note that Gaelic is covered a bit further down, including a list of minimaly pairs which show it IS contrastive there. Akerbeltz (talk) 19:31, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm...I guess I went a bit too far with weasel-y phrasing there, though. It probably should be reworded a little bit --Miskwito (talk) 19:41, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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better references[edit]

Two citations are used to support this statement - "normative and non-normative preaspiration: in a language with normative preaspiration of certain voiceless obstruents, the preaspiration is obligatory even though it is not a distinctive feature; in a language with non-normative preaspiration, the preaspiration can be phonetically structured for those who use it, but it is non-obligatory, and may not appear with all speakers.[6][7] "

[6] = Gordeeva & Scobbie (2010), p. 167ff.

[7] = McRobbie-Utasi (2003), p. 1.

A better and prior reference is the work of Pétur Helgason (cf the Swedish Phonology Wikipedia page), to whom the distinction should be attributed. Could someone remove these secondary references and substitute with an appropriate one from https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Petur_Helgason/research I suggest the following, available at http://www.internationalphoneticassociation.org/icphs-proceedings/ICPhS1999/papers/p14_1851.pdf

Helgason, Pétur. 1999. Phonetic conditions for the development of normative preaspiration. In Ohala, John J., Hasegawa, Yoko, Ohala, Manjari, Granville, Daniel & Bailey, Ashlee C. (eds.), Proceedings of the 14th International Congress of Phonetic Sciences (ICPhS XIV), Berkeley, University of California, 1851–1854.

and

Helgason, Pétur. 2002. Preaspiration in the Nordic languages: synchronic and diachronic aspects. Doctoral thesis, Stockholm University.

As for English, an excellent reference is by Ian Clayton (2017) titled "Preaspiration in Hebrides English" in the Journal of the International Phonetic Association, Volume 47, Issue 2, pp. 155-181. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S002510031700007X — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.157.80 (talk) 10:19, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]