Talk:Prostitution in Pakistan

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Overly cited[edit]

Resolved
 – The problems of over-citing or over-referencing have been address appropriately. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 06:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article had been overly cited. Where three lines consecutively appeared to have the same citation, all were given separate references. I have chosen the citations at the end of a consecutive occurrence like at the end of the three lines or the end of the paragraph. An article should not be overly cited. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 18:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is not "overreferencing". I have used references for each and every sentence because it needed for FA status. It is simply use of reference per sentence. You can use a reference for supporting a paragraph, it is generally good to provide ref for every single sentence. To use reference sentence by sentence is the best practice. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 19:26, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Let's put this page for other editors to see and if they deem necessary make it aptly punctuated with citations. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 20:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That article is definitely overly cited. Although I am not sure if there is anything against having too many references in an article, this article's overuse of citations lowers it appeal. It also gives it a "cluttered" effect. --→ Ãlways Ãhëad (talk) 03:53, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That is precisely my concern. I tried removing the citations but my edits were reverted or copied back to what they were. I even tried my best to explain the matter here but to vain. In the end I just had to forgive and forget. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 04:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I have self-reverted. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 05:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Recent assessments[edit]

I have assessed this article (revised once) and have established that this article is properly referenced, has sections and a LEAD and is free of grammatical errors, however, readability is an issue in its own. This article although lacks supporting images and isn't concise enough. It needs more information aimed at achieving a higher quality level. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 06:40, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

With a second revision, I have added a picture to accompany the text and more revisions would be undertaken over the next few hours. Thanks. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 07:07, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Flickr has some images on Heera Mandi. But almost all are copyrighted. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 07:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have tried to get my hands on the resources especially the book you have mentioned and I see that the article that you have written adheres mostly to the tone of the book. When placed on Wikipedia the text should have the same semantics of the text but written in a different manner having the same meaning. In English, however, the sentence: joining this profession for the sake of earning money means the same as: joining this profession to earn pocket money. The first should be used for academic text, the latter is to tell a story to a small child. Please let me change the article appropriately to make it fit the GA criteria.
Please, do not edit it any more and revert to previous forms. I beg of you. First let it grow huge and then other editors would change more. After all, that is the true meaning of assessment. Your work is to sit back. I know this article is important to you but it is more important to me. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 08:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, the recent edits that I made increased the readability and linkage of the article by ten folds. In fact, after my edits, the article was pretty close to that of one of the candidates for a featured articles. Regarding the pictures, do not worry about that. I have asked for permission from the user to promote them as mine here. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 08:48, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mistake in History section[edit]

A mistake was done done in the History section. The previous sentence was:

These were well-developed and attracted both wealthy clients and those looking for singers and actresses.

It was changed to:

These were well-developed and attracted both wealthy clients and those looking for other savoury pleasures like listening to music and observing dance forms which were usually associated with prostitution

This change is unsourced and wrong because during 1940s Pakistani society was very conservative and women from respected families were generally avoided profession like acting etc. During that time the performing arts industry used the prostitutes to work as actress. This is not related to prostitution, in fact this is what the talent hunters did. I have changed it and this is what the reference is saying. Gangoli, Geetanjali & Nicole Westmarland (2006), International Approaches to Prostitution: Law and Policy in Europe and Asia Page: 142.

After 1947, Pakistan inherited the historical red-light areas in Lahore and Multan. These were well-developed, with a reputation that attracted not only rich clients, but also talent hunters looking for actors and singers.

Thank you for all your efforts to improve the language quality, fix grammatical errors and thus helping it to promote B-class in WikiProject Pakistan, but please do not change the meaning of the sentence. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:33, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the reverts (my bad really), but my concerns really were from the perspective of a person who has no clue why people would go and look for actresses. It would be good if that simple sentence could be elaborated to define why talent hunters chose brothels and place as such to find talent. I will try to locate some other source that seconds this sentence. It is plain and misunderstood. Thanks, yet again.
By the way, I changed the citations to references based on the Harvard referencing techniques so that the article has appeal. Please tell me you are okay with that :) Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 11:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Improper referencing[edit]

This is my first attempt at reviewing an article, so I will start with a comment here rather than directly editing the article.

The key reference for this article is incomplete, and therefore somewhat misleading. All of the footnotes attributed to Gangoli and Westmarland (2006) should more specifically cite Saeed, Fouzia Good women, bad women: prostitution in Pakistan in Gangoli and Westerland pp 141-164.

In addition, there are several lines in the wiki article that are word-for word the same as in the original text. There are footnotes, and when modified, will identify Dr. Fouzia Saeed as the original source, but I am uncertain of the propriety of this approach.

I look forward to guidance on how best to proceed.

Pakphile (talk) 14:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Since there were no comments, I have changed the references, added a cite that was needed (Saeed 2001), and eliminated one that is totally incorrect (Singh)...prostitutes did NOT pick up dancing after Zia made consensual sex illegal, in fact, the traditional dancing girl is dying out because of the change in law. Pakphile (talk) 05:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Photo removed[edit]

I removed a photo from the article that identified a woman as a sex worker. This is a WP:BLP violation. The comments on that particular photo's page speculate that the two women in the photo were prostitutes and that another man was a pimp. Photo is not from a reliable source, like a newspaper story about these people that specifically identifies them and their professions. Certainly this doesn't pass BLP muster. Tempshill (talk) 23:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You want the prostitutes to hold a sign or mark her forhead with saying "I'm a prostitute"? Those women are in fact prostitutes just by looking at them, any woman in the Muslim countries who exposes her self like that one in the photo is clearly telling us that she is a prostitute. Non-prostitute women in Muslim countries are not even allowed to show their hair to men other then their own close family members. If you don't know Muslim culture then you shouldn't act like you know stuff. I'm a Pakistani and that woman or those women in the photo are 100% prostitutes.--119.73.0.72 (talk) 07:29, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I posted the issue at Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard#Prostitution_in_Pakistan to check whether inclusion is policy compliant. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You should have raised it at WP:BLPN Dmcq (talk) 10:42, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I thought about it but decided that OR/N was more appropriate given that a) I don't know whether the person pictured is still living and b) the decision procedure used to justify inclusion isn't policy based. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It says at the top BLP why don't you do what is obvious first please rather than sending it somewhere inobvious after some thought? Dmcq (talk) 16:12, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The original research implication is disputed but the iullustration clearly falls foul of Wikipedia:Image use policy#Privacy rights and it is pretty clear we're not allowed to use that photo without a model release for such use. We might be okay for the original description but not used in that article. Commons:Commons:Photographs of identifiable people has a fairly explicit bit about this use. So I'll go and remove it under this. Dmcq (talk) 14:37, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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