Talk:Relleu

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Missing lede?[edit]

Those images are nice, but they should be all throughout the article, not at the top. What about adding a proper lede?! Jɑυмe (xarrades) 03:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What is this: "Anything of a legal or official nature will normally be in Spanish"? Valencian/Catalan is an oficial language, co-oficial with Spanish in Catalonia, Balearic Islands and the Land of Valencia, it has the same status as Spanish, and no one can be discriminated by using this language, or say such things as i found on this article.
This article do not follow WP:Manual of Style.Jɑυмe (xarrades) 03:25, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relleu (English)[edit]

Billandsally (talk) 16:17, 15 February 2011 (UTC) Hi Jaume, thank you for the interest you have shown in the Wikipedia page I wrote about Relleu, the village in which I have lived for more than 10 years. When my wife and I originally came here, Valencian was widely used by the locals, but more and more of these people have moved closer to the coast for work etc. There were few ex-pats and we all tended to speak Castilian. Unfortunately, the ex-pats who have moved here recently have tended to speak only English and my intent in writing this page, was to try and interest them in the village, the people, languages and traditions.[reply]

We seem to have arrived at what Wikipedia call “revert warring”, they will not tolerate the instability of the Relleu article for long, so, I hope we can come to some agreement on a format that suits us both.

Instead of choosing one language over another I have used both separated by a /. I have left both Valencian and Spanish in the section for official languages in the infobox and used Valencian elsewhere. (I am not anti-Valencian or anti-anything, I just tried to keep the article simple).

I have removed the link to Languages of the European Union as it seemed to bother you. I have, however, left the word “fiesta” as it is now considered an English word. The English refer to Spanish royalty by their given names i.e.”King Juan Carlos not King John Charles” so these are not translated.

Would you please read the article and see if it seems OK to you. If not, could you please let me know why and we could try to adjust it so that we are both happy with it.

It is fine, just i don't agree about Kings' names, names should only be in English when it has already been adapted into English.
Did you know most names of dead kings are translated/adapted into English? i.e. James I of Aragon, Charles V of Spain (Charles I, Holy Roman Emperor), etc. the ones that are alive and kicking, hehe, can be called in the original language (i.e. Spanish, King Juan Carlos I).
Did you know James I of Aragon was rather a Catalan/Occitan/Aragonese speaker than Castilian??! You can't call him Jaime I all the time, as you are using a name that has already been adapted into English as James I of Aragon (see article). His original name was spelled at the time Jayme I with <y>, in both Catalan and Spanish, today Jaume I (Catalan), Chaime I (Aragonese), Jaime I (Spanish).
About the nobility, :)
The original name of Bernardo de Sarriá is in Catalan/Valencian, Bernat de Sarrià (I corrected this earlier), his family came from Northern Catalonia/Southern France after the Reconquista. As there is not a translated name (for him) into English, the original name Bernat de Sarrià should be used instead.
Other names: Peña-roja doesn't exist in Spanish, according to a proper Spanish spelling should be "Peñarroja", but the original spelling is Penya-roja, in Valencian. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 23:23, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Manual of Style[edit]

--Billandsally (talk) 17:58, 14 February 2011 (UTC) I believe that this article follows the Manual of Style Guidelines, but I seem to have offended Jaume87 with regards to the Valencian language. The English speaking readers of this article will have little or no knowledge of the Valencian language, so, following the "Foreign terms" section of the Manual, I have used Spanish words like "Fiesta" as this is known and is in common usage in English speaking countries.[reply]

To quote the Manual, "For foreign names, phrases, and words generally, adopt the spellings most commonly used in English-language references for the article".

I am concerned that the repeated translation of both Spanish and English words into Valencian make the article less easy to read and understand for its target audience.

Hi Billy, thanks for your feedbacks, you haven't offended me at all with regards to the Valencian language, i am happy you understand Valencian is an official language in the Valencian Community/Catalonia/Balearic Islands, including Andorra, Perpignan area, the Italian city of Alghero, etc.
I explain you the policy about naming places at Wikipedia:
Official names are only displayed in the official language (Catalan-Valencian/Basque/Galician... Spanish, or whichever language) ONLY when there isn't an English exonym (an adapted name in English), i.e.
Spain
  • Ourense (instead of Spanish Orense)
  • Girona (instead of Spanish Gerona)
  • Lleida (instead of Spanish Lérida)
  • Gipuzkoa (instead of Spanish Guipúzcoa)
Outside Spain
India
Cases with two official names, double nameplaces:
Spain
Outside Spain
Switzerland
  • Biel/Bienne (bilingual German/French city in Switzerland), etc.
Cases where there are exonyms:
Spain
  • Ibiza (instead of official name in Catalan Eivissa)
  • Majorca (instead of Spanish/Catalan Mallorca)
  • Minorca (instead of Spanish/Catalan Menorca)
  • Biscay (instead of Basque Bizkaia, and Spanish Vizcaya), etc.
Outside Spain
Russia
  • Moscow (instead of Москва, Moskva)
Belgium
  • Antwerp (instead of Flemish Antwerpen, or French Anvers)
  • Brussels (instead of French/Flemish Bruxelles/Brussel)
  • Bruges (instead of Flemish Brugge)
Austria
  • Vienna (instead of German Wien), etc.
As you probably know, the Valencian Community is divided into Valencian and Spanish-speaking areas: there are places with two official names (Spanish/Valencian or the other way round, Valencian/Spanish), and places with just one official name (either Valencian or Spanish).
Places that have an English exonym are preferred over the official name, thus Alicante instead of Alicante/Alacant, Moscow instead of Moskva or Москва, or Brussels instead of Bruxelles or Brussel.
I think your article is good, i will just correct few placenames. The thing i didn't agree with the Language section because it was somehow discriminating the Valencian language. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 23:23, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Thanks for your reply, I am happy with the page as it now is. I will research the mountain heights! Billandsally (talk) 15:59, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome Billy.
It looks better now. I will delete this sentence: "When dealing with the foreign community anything of a legal or official nature will normally be in Spanish." Billy, just to let you know, this statement is false, you are free to express yourself in Valencian.
According to the Valencian Statute of Autonomy, Valencian is also the official language of the "Valencian judiaciary/legal and public system", so anything of legal or official nature will be in both, Spanish and Valencian. I am sure you find more competent to learn Spanish (a global language), but you can't diminish Valencian officiality in the Valencian Community :)
If you want to expand or create/translate some other articles here at the English Wikipedia, just let me know, i could help you any time (i.e. Coves dels Canelobres, Cabeçó d'Or, or Carrascar de la Font Roja). Jɑυмe (xarrades) 18:07, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly Jaume, the town hall only use Spanish when communicating with the foreigners, they are free to choose either or both languages. Choosing one language does not diminish the other! The statement is true. Billandsally (talk) 12:07, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have just been reading the Valencian Law! LLEI 4/1983, de 23 de novembre, d'ús i ensenyament del valencià Article 4t. En cap cas ningú no podrà ser discriminat pel fet d'usar qualsevol de les dues llengües oficials. Billandsally (talk) 16:39, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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