Talk:Saraswati/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Kalpana

There is a note on Kalpana, saying the term refers to Saraswati, but there is nothing in this article which mentions Kalpana. Could somebody who is knowledgeable please either add something to this article explaining the connection between the two names, or (if there is none), delete the link on the Kalpana dab page? RoySmith 11:48, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't see a mention of Saraswati Puja in West Bengal and Nepal during Vasant Panchami. Those are supposed to be two of the biggest celebrations of Saraswati Pujan in India. ~a — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.4.32 (talk) 18:48, 6 September 2006‎ (UTC)

Festivals section:

This section has many inaccuracies in it. Have corrected parts. Please give me your opinion on this. Jayaram Uparna 04:21, 4 July 2007 (UTC) JU

Saraswati belief carried across into Europe by Romanis and converted into Catholic festival

The Romani people (Roma) of Europe are of NW Indian decent and left India shortly after 1000ad. Some scholars believe the Roma are decendants of the Rajputs and were forced out of India after defeat against Islamic invasion.

The language they speak comes from a heavily Sanskrit worded Rajasthani dialect that has Panjabi & Persian additional words in it. After leaving India they were soon travelled to Anatolia where they stayed for some time and absorbed some Greek and Armenian words from the natives of that land. They then from there moved into Europe when Islamic Turks added Turkey to thier empire.

Romani converts to Catholicism have got their own Saint named Sara. Sara is connected to water and in the festival they carry statues of her down to the water. It is believed that the once Hindu believing Roma have adapted some of their beliefs to fit in with European beliefs.

[The Romani people (Roma) are not to be confused with the Roman people of Italy or the country by the name of Romania as these people are nothing to do with them] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.227.166 (talk) 22:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Which is it, V or W?

This page alternates between Saraswati and Sarasvati. The French page uses only the latter. Is it that Sarasvati is Sanskrit while Saraswati is some current language? Or, less likely, is it that this page has contributions from the Germans, who would use the W? Most likely, people looking this up would be interested in the Sanskrit form for consistency in comparative mythology, not the current form so as to be converted to Hinduism. I myself came across the name in "Cowboy Bebop". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.69.127.105 (talk) 21:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Hinduism reassessment

Fails B-criteria

  • The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary.
[citation needed] tags
  • The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies.
Section of consort missing: Associations with Brahma, Vishnu, Ganesha as consort. Expansion and cleanup in temples needed

Redtigerxyz (talk) 05:16, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Did Saraswati have a husband?

Well, yes, she did have a husband. Her husband was Brahma. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.64.35.168 (talk) 16:28, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Three goddesses?

The article immediately begins with "Saraswati is the first of three great goddesses." The three goddesses are in no way "great" in any other aspect than that they are the consorts of the male Devas. If any goddess is great it is Devi, of whom all other goddesses are aspects. I suggest recognizing these three consorts as a triad, rather than as "great goddesses."

this is a POV. --Jayaram Uparna 04:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Some Hindus believe in a Godess Trinity which is just like the Trimurti only that the 3 members of the Trimurti (Lord Shiva, Lord Vishnu, and Lord Brahman) are replaced by their 3 wives (Godess Durga, Godess Lakshmi, and Godess Saraswati). Armyrifle 01:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

called shaktas, they emphasise the supreme form of divinity as a goddess, Parashakti. They donot "replace" S V B per se in any tradition. --Jayaram Uparna 04:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
The trio of Saraswati, Lakshmi, and Parvati is known as Tridevi. — Sizzle Flambé (☎/✍) 05:01, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Saraswati is the daughter of Brahma not his wife. Saraswati's children are the Vedas. So actually Brahma is her father. --Saraswathigirl (talk) 09:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Other meanings... Saraswati River

«In India there is a river called Saraswati, which flows from the west end of the Aravalli Hills into the east end of the Rann of Kutch. [citation needed]» As Saraswati River notes, there are several referents, one of which has no article, Sarsuti River — and this appears to be the river indicated above. The Sarsuti is now a tributary of the Luni River, which runs in the Sarsuti's lower course, does rise in the western Aravalli Range, and does empty into the northeastern corner of the Rann of Kutch. The Sarsuti itself comes from Pushkar Lake, also near the Aravalli Range, so (like the the Luni) it fits that description — if you designate the confluent rivers as the Sarsuti rather than the Luni. See these linked articles. — Sizzle Flambé (☎/✍) 05:27, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Make it secular

This article needs to be modified to remove honorific elements (capitalizing pronouns) to make this page secular. Kitabparast 05:54, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Please give more information on Saraswati and Brahtjytjhma's relationship.Brhama was father of saraswati and then also he made her a wife and kept sexual relations with her. How it is? what are the sources? How we should believe such stories? Whether it is true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.1.78.126 (talk) 18:41, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

@make this secular yes there are many mistries as they are in other religious beliefs like who will believe the rebirth of Jesus christ???also there are some theories which can not be explained like christianity dont belive in animal offerings but abraham demanded head of one of his two sons as a offering.so himself originator contradicts its theory,so we better comment on this after thorough study.so let's not comment on any of the religions theories untill a indepth knowledge and lets not malign any religion,and better we know own religion first before commenting on any other religion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.231.29.21 (talk) 05:51, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Poor Quality of articles on Hinduism, its Deities and Vedic Literature

I have been noticing this for quite sometime; the articles are not upto the mark; people who wrote it either lacked the information or cited individual reseraches which may not contain the real context. Honestly speaking these articles must be written under a Seers' guidance who know the subject very well and/or references should contain copy of manuscripts with learned commentary ( Sanskrit commentary contains - meaning of the words and semantics). ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.108.124 (talk) 14:48, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Wife of Brahma

She is wife of Brahma NOT Vishnu.

This is just ridiculous same thing says on Vishnu page looks like someone has not read the Vedas before Saraswati is WIFE of Brahma and Vishnu is not married to Saraswati. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pebble101 (talk • contribs) 02:57, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Shivaanujaa

Anuj means born later i.e. little brother or sister (anuja) So then Shivaanujaa will mean shiva's little sister And gayatri was brahma's wife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.64.147.248 (talk) 19:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

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No Confusion

The Trinity are Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva. Their respective consorts are Saraswati, Lakshmi and Parvati. Some ignorant people advance the illogical and factually incorrect argument that if Brahma is the "Creator", then all beings created must be children and so Saraswati must be a daughter to Brahma. The fact is that the consorts of the Trinity are simply manifestations of the Supreme Goddess. Just as the Trinity can manifest themselves further into various forms as the occasion demands, so can their consorts, but that's a different story altogether! — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheOnlyEmperor (talk • contribs) 07:15, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Sarasvati (saraswati) was Slavic goddess Zora, Zorica/Danica Sveta

The same goddess was Slavic goddes Zorica, Zora or Danica, which meant "dawn" or "star" or "lightened" (day; Dana). Sveta is "light, holy" or "world". Her holy symbol was a white swan. The transliteration in Sanskrit, Slavic is "Surya-Sveta" ("white(bright) sun(star)). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.182.57.39 (talk) 17:50, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Sources for stories?

The entire section of stories from the mythology (i.e., Sarasvati's interactions with Brahma, etc.) appears to be without sources. A very quick survey of Hindu lore will reveal many different versions of the same stories, so where did these ones come from? Ar they from a primary source, like the Puranas? Are they someone's personal research? Did they come from an encyclopedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1:9780:3F:2458:B670:A3D1:2347 (talk) 00:18, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Saraswati and Imagination

there are too much mythology story in Hindu Dharma.out of these saraswati is one.recently in Times of India there are news there is no any Indian University in top 200 university in world.Do you know why Because SAraswati is specialist Goddess in India.

  • In India Savitribai Phule and mahatma phule started first Girls school in 1848.there should be Savavitribai's Puja In school during starting any program. But There are Hindu Teachers Majority in all school in India so they refuse to Do so.
  • Saraswati Not Started any school. it is not clear that Vedas are Written By Saraswati.

But Most important is what is Saraswati's Role in Education... then why should she is Goddess of Knowledge or Education.

  • Hindu Majority Teachers goes with this mythology and making false propaganda about Saraswati.PRASAD 02:20, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Goddess of "Science"

This article recently mentioned on three occasions and without references that Saraswati is a goddess of "science." We should find some good sources to demonstrate this before writing it here. -Darouet (talk) 23:22, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Not really, because the mention of he as a goddess of science is a pretty common interpretation of her role as governing all things associated with learning and knowledge. But if you insist I could point you to http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/hmvp/hmvp17.htm#fn_100 where the author WJ Wilkins, an author on Hinduism assesses her as a goddess of wisdom and science. You could find it in any scholarly work but again it's trivial because she is a goddess of science and that is pretty much ubiquitous among mythologists.Grathmy (talk) 18:36, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

sources and content

@182.53.96.234: Please read WP:V, WP:RS and WP:FRINGE. Please explain your proposed changes and sources on this talk page. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:26, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Weapons

@Avsrana: please do not ignore edit summaries and edit war with unsourced content. Do you have a source for this second attempt with weapons? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 13:10, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

@Ms Sarah Welch: hello ma'am, i am just a beginner so i dont know much obut wikipedia. the sources regarding to weapons i dont have any. but i have read the vedas , puranas,etc they describe like this and my grandmother who is above 85 tells me the iconography of each god and goddess.

user:Avsrana

Wikipedia is not a blog. If you don't have a source that verifies what you are adding, please don't add it. See WP:V and WP:RS content policies of wikipedia. Your cooperation is requested, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:37, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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Etymology

This etymology section, added in 2014, is a complete original research invention. Sarasvatī means she who possesses (vatī) pools (sara/saras). The current made up etymology is an attempted reading by a westerner, backed up with incorrect references to the wrong words in a sanskrit dictionary. No reputable source translates the 'sva' in 'Saraswati' as 'sva' meaning self, because that does not explain the 'T'. 'Sara' cannot mean essence either because it is spelled wrong (short a vs. long ā). If this were the correct etymology her name would be Sāraswayi. 64.183.168.138 (talk) 18:57, 10 April 2018 (UTC) (Wasn't logged in)Iṣṭa Devatā (talk) 19:11, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Sarmatians

Hello,

A question to whom have knowledge, Sarmatians & Saraswati, can these two, be related?! KhabarNegar Talk 07:54, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:39, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2021

CHange Warangal to "Wargal" in Temples. Bimu Infinity (talk) 15:28, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Bimu Infinity Done ✅ .💠245CMR💠.•👥📜 15:58, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 Already done: Updated answer parameter J850NK (talk) 19:42, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Saraswati

Isn't it Saraswati, not Sarasvati?

--I am 12 I love Wikipedia 22:07, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

No. Indians pronounce "v" as a "w" as in latin. - Tεxτurε 22:44, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Well, mostly... yes... it might even be said more accurately to be in between a "v" and a "w". Vayu, or 'vahaan' is not strictly a 'v' or 'w' when heard from an Indian tongue. :) --LordSuryaofShropshire 05:11, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

V or W

@Redtigerxyz and MRRaja001: I have seen many scholars and sources using Sarasvati, instead of Saraswati. The former spelling is more accurate and other goddesses such Devi, Parvati, etc. use V. Should we change the name???? .245CMR.•👥📜 07:42, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

In my research, i found that, the name Sarasvati is widely used in all books than Saraswati. So, i completely support @245CMR:. - MRRaja001 (talk) 08:25, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 10 July 2021

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no consensus for a move at this time, and more clearly a consensus against the proposed move. BD2412 T 18:02, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Saraswati → Sarasvati – "V" is more accurate spelling of the Sanskrit word. Also most RS use V and this is supported on the article's talk page. .245CMR.•👥📜 09:48, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:14, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
  • @245CMR and Sam Sailor: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:15, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Title has been stable since creation in 2003 with 2463 revisions and 1160 editors, so this is def not an uncontroversial technical request. Sam Sailor 10:48, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''',then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Oppose. Stable title since 2003, and I don't hear a solid argument for why it should be moved. Looking at this Ngram also suggests that the statement "most RS use V" is wrong. Sam Sailor 11:34, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Comment: Most sources which are about Hinduism use "Sarasvati" for the goddess. "Saraswati" is actually incorrect as "v" is the correct English translation of the Sanskrit letter व. "Saraswati" is common as a feminine name in India and Google books may contain many authors and other characters..245CMR.•👥📜 12:41, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
@Redtigerxyz: Then why does पार्वती in Simple English ("Parvati") has "v", when both the names have व? Also, IAST scripts are not banned as titles. (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic)).245CMR.•👥📜 13:53, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
I cannot comment why the व is transliterated as W in Saraswati and v in Parvati, but the fact remains that the simplified transliteration in Indian English is overwhelmingly Saraswati [1]. Primary transliteration/ Simplified transliteration is preferred to Formal transliteration (like IAST/ ISO). --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:38, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
ok, thanks for your response.245CMR.•👥📜 15:44, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment, it isn't really possible to say that either v or w is the correct transliteration of a Sanskrit character into English, no matter what some authoritative body says; English is not subject to decrees from authoritative bodies, neither foreign nor domestic, and never has been. More importantly, though, Sanskrit and English are so far removed from one another in time and space that, from a purely genetic standpoint, nothing in Sanskrit can be said to correspond exclusively to English v or w and not the other: because, v and w (and u, but we can ignore that, because this matter pertains to the consonant usage) are all descended from the same letter. Latin v, in classical times, when a consonant, was the same sound as modern English w. In nearly all the continental languages, that sound shifted and became the modern v sound. English, OTOH, retained the old sound, and when it became necessary to differentiate the sounds in writing, they signified the historic v sound by doubling the letter - whence came w. So, another thing to consider, here, is how is this name pronounced? Does it sound more like English w or v? (note also, most languages that use the Latin alphabet do not have different sounds for those letters than English does). The pronunciation should have some weight, I think, in deciding this matter. Firejuggler86 (talk) 02:58, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose — the common usage is overwhelmingly Saraswati in (Indian) English, as highlighted by the Google trends and ngrams links mentioned above. Regarding the v vs. w in romanizing व (va in IAST), in Sanskrit this letter represents /ʋ/ (see Sanskrit#Consonants) in the IPA which is a voiced labiodental approximant. This consonant is almost a hybrid between /v/ and /w/ and may explain this difference in romanizations. — Iunetalk 23:09, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Biwa --> Veena; edit needed

One of the photos on this page has a caption claiming that Saraswati is playing a biwa; that's a Japanese instrument — what's meant here is the veena, specifically the Saraswati veena. I don't know how to edit captions, unfortunately. --87.115.226.248 (talk) 18:33, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Siblings

Shiva and Saraswati are siblings, because they were created by Kali at the same time I think.

Shiva is other way is Saraswati's father, and Saraswati has siblings by the name of, ganus, kati, Lakshmi, etc. So edit it please Llxvender (talk) 07:47, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2022

Please change : 'She is a part of the tridevi of Saraswati, along with Lakshmi and Parvati.' to 'She is one of the tridevi, along with Goddess Lakshmi and Goddess Parvati.' S.llywiki;- (talk) 20:37, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done. I added this source from the tridevi page. Heartmusic678 (talk) 15:00, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Saraswati should be changed to Sarasvati

Phonetically, 'v' is more accurate than 'w' for these Indian names. Bibek Debroy systematically uses 'v' in all the Sanskrit names like Sarasvati, Vishvakarma, etc. The other popular goddess Parvati is never spelt as 'Parwati'. So let's make the usage of 'v' instead of 'w' standard in all Sanskrit words this sound appears in.

It will have initial pushback but it's a matter of habit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LWTBP (talk • contribs) 10:53, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@LWTBP That's not how Wikipedia works. We reflect what the reliable sources use — DaxServer (t · m · c) 12:58, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Adding Other names

Please add the below as "Other names" in Template. Kalaimagal, Vanidevi, Kalaivani, Kalavathi, Savitri, Saratha, Bharathi, Madhavi, Abhinaya, Abhirami, Brahmi, Amudini, Amudhasurabi, Amudhavakini, Amudabharati, Amudha, Sarasabharati, Indubharati, Bhamas, Naamas, Chitrasena, Vasundari, Vasantini, Vasantha, Isimatanta, Vidyadevi ,Kogilavani, Gayathridevi, Sangeeta, Sandhya, Satyojini, Satyavani, Satyakala, Sakalakalavalli, Sasikala

Cited book: https://books.google.com/books?id=iU0OAAAAQAAJ

Ethmo stud (talk) 11:39, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

That’s Products of the Mineral, Vegetable, and Animal Kingdoms, Useful Arts and Manufactures · Volume 3
By Edward Balfour · 1885 not a reliable source and that’s far too many names anyway. Doug Weller talk 12:02, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Unable to edit this article

I was going to add a wikilink to this article, but was unable to do so because it appears to be locked from editing. Please fix this ridiculous situation! 173.88.246.138 (talk) 19:47, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Sexuality and Creative Dissent

@Aadrit28 I've reverted the edits because the sources that were added failed verification, other information lacked citations and was written in a POV such as these:

  • In either case, Saraswati's complicated relationship with her father-husband problematises her subject position, and her curse, and her virtue of knowledge makes her an unorthodox feminine figure
  • Saraswati is thus like no other goddesses, she isn't the demure Lakshmi, the temperamental wife of Vishnu, or the very heroic Durga, or even Kali. She is the guardian of knowledge, her curse is an act of dissent against oppression, and her mastery of art a subversion of phallogocentrism
  • It is perhaps only Saraswati, unlike any other goddess, who maintains and exists as being relatively free from a male dominance and without any dependence on male deities, the male deities rather depend upon her, and frequently invoke her for knowledge and wisdom. Eucalyptusmint (talk) 00:46, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Wisdomlib.org

This article relies heavily on Wisdomlib.org - I see multiple uses of that site as a reference. Here is that source's 'About' page - it is a single person's project, and a self-publiched source, therefore inherently unreliable. The author, Gabe Hiemstra, is not (as far as I have been able to establish) an academic, nor has his work been published in reliable sources, so we cannot treat this as an EXPERTSPS. The source should be replaced by better sources where possible; any material supported by it that cannot be supported by any other source ought to be removed. Girth Summit (blether) 09:57, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Agreed — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 13:46, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for starting this thread, it's definitely worth a discussion since I've also seen it cited in other articles as well such as Tulasi in Hinduism, Ganga (goddess) and Bhagiratha to name a few. The site is clearly self published but I don't think the info is written by the author himself. It looks like it's a digital compilation of various texts (that the author has 'collected') as the book, author, ISBN number are noted at the top of each page. For example this page [2] notes that the excerpt is from the Puranic Encyclopedia by Vettam Mani and when you compare it to the actual book found here [3], the info looks all the same. So seems like it's probably better to just cite the original source itself. Eucalyptusmint (talk) 17:38, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
As discussed in this thread , I will make changes to my previous edit while citing the original source since that will make the edit no longer problematic(even though the main body of the article has long been using the same source that I recently included in the infobox):
https://archive.org/details/puranicencyclopa00maniuoft
Page:695
But due to want of time, and some issues in editing, someone else is more than welcome to revert back to my edit with new citation. Bodhiupasaka (talk) 18:51, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Trimurti

Three of the most significant forms of Brahman are Brahma , Shiva and Vishnu . These three gods are key aspects of Brahman, the Ultimate Reality . The word 'trimurti' means 'three forms'. In the trimurti, Brahma is the creator, Vishnu is the preserver and Shiva is the destroyer. have never in my life been told that Sarasvati is part of the Trimurti, she is daughter of Brahma please correct 2001:5A8:43CF:DA00:84D3:9CC0:270F:6187 (talk) 10:11, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

It says she is one of the Tridevi, which is correct. Where does the article say she is part of the Trimurti? Johnbod (talk) 14:40, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
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