Talk:Sari/Archive 1

Indus Valley didn't feature sari

It's erroneous to attribute priest king's shoulder drape to sari, even as predecessor. Only immediate predecessor of sari is two piece antariya & uttariya or meladai & sirradai in Sangam texts. Sari is a rectangular piece of fabric that's tied around lower body and draped over torso. Takes shape only by 2nd century BCE to 1st century CE, clearly visible in sculptures of Kushans who carried Roman influences with their clothing. Please don't feed factually wrong info by attributing the origin of Sari to any period before.

Sari sans blouse

I found it interesting that this article never brings up the (at one time) very common practice of wearing a sari without a blouse. While breast coverings were worn sometimes, the blouse/choli/Stanapatta was optional. Here is Sharmila Tagore's take on her relative's attempt to make the blouse a more common part of the outfit. I also remember reading an article about Tagore being denied entrance to a club because Victorian sensibilities required more clothes for women, which resulted in her desire to wear more blouses. I can't find it anymore, though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.242.72.121 (talk) 07:16, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

not a model

"Indian Airlines mannequin"? That's a puppet, not a model on the photo.

Pakistan Saris?

I think we should include that saris are also worn in Pakistan. Zia introduced some strict Islamic policies (wearing Shalwar Kamiz himself, banning saris on Pakistani TV, and generally cutting ties between India-Pakistan) that led to the decline of sari-wearing, but they have always been a part of normal Pakistani dress, especially on formal occasions such as weddings. From what I can tell, saris are finally coming back in vogue again! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.208.160.122 (talk) 19:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Saris were always minority's choice of dress in pre-partition region now known as Pakistan. It was never the native dress of Pashtuns, Baluchis, Muslim Sindhis or Muslim Kashmiris. Punjabi native dress was always Lunga. Shunning of Sair is not dues to fundamental Muslims but a cultural requirements. The wearing of sari in Pakistan was limited to Indian mahajer women in urban Sindh predominantly Karachi and Hyderabad but this has declined in recent decades as these people have become Pakistanised. A number of individual women of certain upper classes do wear sari in formal occasions but this is limited to cities such as Lahore, /karachi and Hyderabad etc. Fatima Jinnah greeted fleeing Indian women to Pakistan by advising them to adopt shalwar kameez as this was Muslim attire given that they were now in Muslim land and had left India. Contributors should use historical facts not ideological biased assertions when dealing with issues of attire. General Zia was a Punjabi mahajer from Jallundar where the dress code for Muslim women was shalwar kameez in urban areas and lungah rural areas. User: Moarrikh 22:44, 25 November 2011.

Yes, I think saris in Pakistan are worth discussing. The topic has been discussed often in the Pakistani Press.

Examples:

Malaiya (talk) 22:52, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Source of text

An anonymous user [1] has added many good information on this article. But, I have the doubts over the sources. Could he explains if the content doesn't conflict with Wikipedia:Policy --Rrjanbiah 04:38, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Nearly 80% of the article is made of content added [2] by the anon user. Google and Yahoo searches turn up only Wikipedia and its forks. Maybe because it was added long back. Or it's possible anon user picked up the content from books. I plan to list this article at Wikipedia:Copyright_problems#Suspected_copyright_infringements_without_online_source. Jay 13:40, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

article references and bibliography are listed

The article being largely written by a single author is not a valid reason for suspicion of being copyvio. Instead, it is when reference sources, links or bibliography are not given that one really needs to be vigilant. Unfortunately it is the reverse that is prevailent in the wikipedia.

This leads to hindering people from contributing large information on fear of being listed as copyvio, while many people (and I mean many) get away with POV trivia. This is extremely unhealthy for the wikipedia.

Eg: for several months people edited the article Aishwarya Rai only to be listed on the copyvio. The webpage that had taken wikipedia as the source was itself listed as the original source, while the wikipedia article was calmly deleted. The second version of aishwarya rai is indeed copyvio now as the original contribution have been wiped out. Do people expect everyone to write perpetually several versions. WHY cant one person contribute large info?? is that against wikipedia policy?? Water Fish 12:58, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Need picture

need a simple traditional picture for each type of saree wearing styles. Now i am not an expert here. hehe --kunjan1029 09:40, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Agreed, I came to this page because I wanted to see pictures of the most common saree wearing styles, preferably one model wearing one saree draped 10+ different ways. Seems like that should be a doable project. Yet another Wikipedia fail on a "women's" topic. -anonymous 25 May 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.182.81.236 (talk) 13:12, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Since wikipedia can be edited by anyone, the only 'failure' is on the part of women themselves, who have not yet added this to the site! There's no male-oriented committee deciding what will be on wikipedia and what will not. I agree, though - that's why I came to the page, too, and it would be very helpful if someone could do this.87.246.103.137 (talk) 11:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Picture

Shouldn't we put examples on this page? --kunjan1029 07:44, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I wanted to use this picture, but couldn't get permission. I was also requesting permission to use this Guiness Record saree, but couldn't get it yet. More such discussions in my page User_talk:Rrjanbiah#How_to_get_images_permission.3F --Rrjanbiah 06:08, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Why are the eyes of the women wearing the sarees blurred out in the picture uploaded by User:David.Monniaux on September 17th? I believe it looks very unprofessional. Also I believe this picture does not correctly represent the grace of a saree.Jbritto

Yes, it's not a good picture. The problem is getting a nice picture that is public domain -- because it WILL be copied endlessly. There are not enough public-spirited photographers contributing to Wikipedia! Zora 19:59, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Hindi language template

They had this on the Hindi language version... the first being Sari and the second being Kurta. I was wondering if this is a relevant template to have or if someone could translate it or whatnot. gren 03:20, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if it is relevant, but the chart is translated as (top-bottom, left-right): Indian Clothing (title, or ~ garment(s), ~ dress), Sari | Kurta | Dhoti | Sherwani | Dupatta | Lehnga (or Choli) | Lungi | Turban

Most of these are already covered in the "See Also" section of this page.

I also found it curious that the Hindi root from which sari entered English isn't mentioned on the page: साड़ी [IAST: sāṛī]. Khirad (talk) 18:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Major revision

I'm so busy NOT fixing my computer. I completely revised the article. It was rather confusing, not well organized, and seemed to have been written by someone who had never shopped for, worn, or laundered a sari. The grandiose claims for the antiquity of the sari were doubtful, and I balanced them. The whole section on Hindu philosophy and the sari was POV, so I surgically excised it.

I haven't read any of the references in the list; I'm only a sewer-quilter-textile artist and a demented sari shopper. So it could be that some of what I've introduced is doubtful. However, I think the revision is an improvement, and it offers a lot of scope for filling out stubs.

Pictures, beautiful pictures, would help. I don't own a digital camera, or enough saris to start documenting, alas. Any philanthropists out there can send me LOTS of money so I can buy a camera and lots of saris and start snapping pictures <g>. Zora 29 June 2005 00:59 (UTC)

Anon, you carefully restored a lot of ungrammatical, mispelled, and disorganized prose. You didn't just restore "information" -- you restored what I am guessing was your original composition. I strongly object. It was sub-standard prose.

I don't know what to do about your assertions re the Indus valley civilization object, Tamil epics, and traditional Kerala clothing. Just because a statue depicts someone wearing a wrapped cloth does not mean that the person is wearing a sari! Early Mesopotamian and Persian statues and bas-reliefs also show wrapped garments. Descriptions of flowing draperies in an epic do not necessarily constitute a good case for a sari. Your assertions re the Kerala clothing are somewhat contradictory -- on the one hand there is a wrapped sari without a choli, and on the other hand there is a two-piece garment with gold fringe. (Or was that gold fringe actually a border with zari work?)

I do believe that some women of South India wore a single wrapped cloth and customarily exposed their breasts, having seen plates of such costumes while I was working on a 19th century text for Distributed Proofreaders. Dang, I wish I could recall the title -- I'd try to get a copy and post some of the plates, which are in the public domain now. How this relates to two piece garments I have no idea -- which is why the old plates would help. We could also put in a quote from the Tamil epic IF you can come up with a quote that you believe proves that saris were worn extremely early. A picture of the Indus valley statuette would help, as opposed to simply stating that it existed.

You deleted remarks about the difficulties of wearing sari and the cumbersomeness of wearing the Nivi drape. (The fishtail sari is said to be a lot more comfortable and practical.) I've heard women talking about how difficult saris can be to wear -- and talked to Indian women who'd cheerfully adopted salwar kameez in place of saris because, they said, the salwar suit is more comfortable.

I wish you would take a username rather than hiding behind an anonymous IP, and come forward to discuss things. I don't want to squelch your views, which are probably typical of some segment of opinion about saris as an element of Indian culture, but I'd like to see them more specific and more supported by sources. Zora 3 July 2005 11:51 (UTC)

integration of info with reference and Indus valley pictures

Hi Zora,

I liked the new version on sari that you have made. But I have tried to add those information that were given references. My english might be bad but I dont think that should be the reason to revert an edit. Or may be you reverted it because it was anon when posted. I dont know how I logged off (may be because I was writing for long and it automatically logged off.) anyway I have logged on and posted it again.

Here I give you a link to several pictures from the indus valley including a picture of the figurine that is considered by many Historians as depicting a sari worn by a male Indus valley priest.

http://www.pitt.edu/~asian/week-1/week-1.html

(it is the picture of a male with flower patterns)

I am sad that you have got upset. This is wikipedia and different people are going to contribute and that means several points would be contributed by numerous people. Zora, you have written many nice points but you have not given references for many of the statements that you have made. which could therefore be interpreted as POV. Vagab 3 July 2005 12:53 (UTC)

Again, attempted to edit for clarity

I may get resistance and reversion again BUT -- the version that's been up for a while is written in clumsy English, with mispelling and awkward transitions. It contains much irrelevant detail, re non-sari clothing styles, which would be better put into a History of Indian clothing article. I also removed all the material re navels and Hindu spirituality. That's speculation and POV. It would be as if I were to explain the evolution of Western fashion by reference to Christianity.

I also removed all the material added by anons re sari draping. It's very badly written, in sub-standard English, and it really doesn't do the job as well as the various sites to be found through the external links, which combine directions and pictures. Zora 06:31, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

If a piece of information is written in clumsy english then it has to be re-written by those who feel they know great english. deleting it is not what wikipedia is about. besides zora you have consistently failed to give references to the large edit that you have made. you are only using the reason of clumsy and bad english as an alibi to delete passages you do not like. If a cultural attire is rooted in its tradition then it has to be accepted not deleted. As long as references is provided for an information it is not Pov and should not be deleted. without references however an edit is Pov even if it is written in great english. Vagab 10:54, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Vagab, you're reverting to a badly-written, POV version of the article just because it's YOURS. You have removed REAL information, from Chantal Boulanger's web site, to replace it with your previous, sketchy, misleading version. Shame on you. Zora 11:08, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Give references Zora for all your edits. It works better than calling people shame. Please give references Zora, and then shame people. Vagab 11:12, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Vagab, I do NOT need to give references for rewriting the first para. It's simply taking clumsy prose and making it clearer. Also getting rid of mispellings like "unstiched". As for the rewrite on the sari styles -- that's a paraphrase of the Chantal Boulanger website linked in the article. That's not a new reference. You're claiming I need references -- all I need is copyediting and writing skill. The only "information" I omitted were the bits re non-sari clothing styles from ancient India -- better covered in a History of Indian clothing article -- and your bits re the philosophy of baring the navel, which are POV. I am sure that there are/were many women who don't/didn't believe in that philosophy who wear/wore midriff-baring saris. It's not a philosophical statement. Also -- there are the tribal women who don't bare their midriffs. Zora 11:54, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Vagab, the first paragrap (with no change in information) is much better in Zora's version. The styles sections is more informative (and I think it was referenced [3] from the links I've read) Eh, I listed what I thought about every change on User talk:Zora#Sari 2. I think you removed relevant information and went off on irrelevant stuff. I did think some of your points deserve looking... why am I explaining again, see the talk for my comments. gren 13:19, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Links

We have a lot of external links because they have pictures. We are seriously lacking sari pictures. Any volunteers for taking pictures of the various styles of sari? Zora 08:28, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, some of the commercial links are not desirable but access to the pictures is more important than that fact. Therefore if the pages have a neutral purpose then they can be used. (I explained better on User talk:Zora) Getting nice free license pictures would be the best answer of course. gren グレン 12:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

You can find some pics at Tamil people. --Pamri • Talk 16:32, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Another illustration is here: Image:Batik painting.jpg. BTW, Is there any specific picture you want? --Pamri ^{• Talk • Reply} 13:40, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I would like to have a few more nice shots of women wearing saris in different wrap styles, PLUS shots illustrating zari, resham, zardozi, punkra, PLUS shots of the various regional weaving styles. I was trying to get the lady who runs this online sari shop [4] to give us some of her pictures to put in Wikipedia and the public domain, but she is not enthusiastic. I wish she would. She has lovely pictures, and public interest in saris would only benefit her business. I'm an example of a Westerner who sews, quilts, loves nice cloth, and I've started buying saris just because they're beautiful, even though I don't wear them. I just love the cloth! Zora 19:14, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Here are some free pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clodreno/search/text:saree/ Before you download it, click on the picture and check the license under Additional Information. Upload it only if it says cc. And also, please upload them to commons, so other projects can use it too. When you upload it to commons, insert {{Claude|image url}} in the summary field. --Pamri • Talk 06:42, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

south india -andhra pradesh

If you would like to know how to tie a Sari/Saree, try this: http://www.howvids.com/Fashion/How_to_tie_a_Sari_-_Part_1.ad2 Willy57 (talk)willy57 —Preceding comment was added at 21:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Sari ceremony

An anon editor added a para re a sari ceremony, said to be held when a girl dons her first full-length sari. I have removed this pending verification. I have never heard of such a thing, but then I'm a foreigner, so I might not have. Exactly WHERE in India is this a custom? Are there any Indian editors who have heard of this? Any cites for its existence? We can restore it (in a better place) if it's verified. Zora 05:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Intro para

Impumozhi, you added a sentence saying that the sari was the oldest garment in the world. That was unreferenced, and I think it's wrong, to boot. The early clothing of which we have record (even remains!) is made from skins, by tanning and sewing. You don't get draped cloth garments until much later, with the invention of spinning and weaving. Egyptian and Mesopotamian art shows people wearing loincloths, wraparounds/kilts/lungi, and wrapped robes. Those can't be described as saris.

Also, you changed the sentences around so that instead of saying that the nivi style is the most common, you said that it IS the sari. That's just not right, and not fair to the women who wear non-nivi styles. Let's hear it for the dhoti wrap and South Indian styles! Zora 23:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

• Zora, I must confess I never thought of skins. I suppose there must be Eskimos who still wear them, so that furs qualify as "among the oldest surviving articles of attire", which I don't think can be said about ancient Egyptian clothing (but look at Dhoti!! India beats the world every time!! In inertia). Would you say the "among" word allows the sari to weasel through as being among the oldest surviving? I'm so good at weaseling, I have a weasel word for weasel -- I call it diplomatese.
• I don't understand what I did to make the nivi sound like the only drape. The sentence in the lead which says that one end is draped across the shoulders was present before my rewording, and is present now, after your changes. Except for the mundum style, every other drape can be thus described, so what did I do?
• And the Nivi is in fact a south Indian drape. The para on drapes says it originates in Andhra, but AFAIK, it was the general drape of Tamil Nadu and Karnataka as well, except for certain communities. Can we amend / reference this?
• You have re-introduced the word "choli". This is not an English word (sari arguably is), is used nowhere but in Hindi, and even has an indecent flavour to it. Can we not say "blouse" in English? Everyone in India does.

And do forgive my propensity to write long messages! Regards, ImpuMozhi 02:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

You can't use "blouse", because while it may mean one thing in Indian English, it means something entirely different in English English. You say "blouse", I don't think of a tight midriff-baring style. Sometimes with no back, so it's just sleeves and a front piece.

Choli is indecent? Every website I visit to drool over saris sells "cholis" too. Did "Choli ke peeche gahe" have that much effect on Indian thought? :)

Tight midriff-baring sometimes backless blouse, sometimes called a choli? Will that do?

Choli in Maharashtra and Karnataka is used for blouses without buttons in front and end of cloth knotted to keep it in place. Blouse is a more general version of the garment warn with a regular sari.

The word blouse is not interchangeable with choli. I suggest "upper garment" or "top" as an accurate neutral replacement. (Although I don't think there's anything indecent about the word "choli", myself.) 96.237.177.60 (talk) 14:59, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

As for your edits re the sari drape -- I have "generally" -- you dropped that. It's not true that styles always go over the shoulder. The fishtail drape doesn't. I'm quite familiar with those drapes, because I just did a lot of research trying to figure how some saris worn in an Odissi dance performance were draped, and ended up researching Bharatnatyam drapes.

The Odissi dance was marvelous. I'm so used to the so-so dancing in Bollywood movies that world-class classical dancing is a treat. Zora 02:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

 Regarding the blouse perhaps there should be a different section for blouse and Indian blouse.

Question ... my family refers to sari as pavada, not the petticoat... perhaps it's only Tamil brahmins that refer to sari as pavada, and low-caste Tamilians refer to the petticoat as pavada? (My family also refers to the petticoat as the "in-skirt," which may also be a regional thing, but isn't a quibble with what's written here -- but pavada=petticoat rather than pavada=sari is a quibble.) 66.60.241.7 (talk) 19:10, 10 January 2009 (UTC)M. Radhakrishnan

---

Hindugal 13:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC) A new pleasing picture has been added; due attribution has been done. The picture is freely available on the product brochures as well as on the website. Administrator, please, please, don't remove it. It is one of the most graceful renditions of the sari!

References

Removed link to blog

Someone added a link to a blog with some sari material, some dubious material, and ads. I didn't think that we should be sending readers there for info, so removed the link. Zora 02:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Dapper Draper's reorg

A new editor put all the section titles back in caps, probably not knowing that the WP style is to uppercase only the first word (and proper nouns, of course). This editor also moved the history section to the top. I moved it back down. Readers using this article want to know what a sari IS; the history is secondary. It's hard to even understand the history if you don't know what a sari is, or a choli.

I'm also unsure about the gallery; it made the pictures awfully small. One can't see any detail. I think that the gallery needs to be tweaked. Zora 03:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Tags

I moved this to the top. I know Zora had removed it but--if they are going to be on a talk page they belong on the top. As for Zora's removal... it's not that I don't agree that it will get problematic when four or five countries claim this article is part of their WikiProject but I don't yet see any precedent for removal... for instance Talk:Layla and Majnun has a WikiProject Afghanistan template on it... O_o which, Iran, Azerbaijan, and Arabia all seem more closely related to the tale, but STBot has been adding them to many articles. In any case, I don't think this is an issue we will decide on this page since it's an issue that covers all of Wikipedia. So, I'd recommend that kept or removed users cite a Wikipedia-wide precedent for it. If there become too many we can always use Template:skiptotoctalk gren グレン 17:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this will provide an answer of sorts. gren グレン 17:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Rearranged Sections and subsections

I have moved the 'Sari as a cloth' section up before the types because in types it is talking mostly about the types of cloth. Also, I moved the Sri lankan way of wearing sari from type to styles of draping because it wasnt talking about type of cloth/weave/design but of type/style of draping. I also moved Pakistan with the same logic. But now I am not sure about it, as it does not specify the style of draping neither does it specify type of cloth. It might go in history. Can somebody suggest what to do with that part.

Also, styles of drapes is right now a bit confusing. And we need photos of various types of drapes as well as types of sari cloth. The images right now I think are not used to the fullest benefit. Also, the girls wearing sari in Taj Mahal are actually wearing a ghagara choli and odhani. May be we should remove it from here. --Kaveri 17:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Clothing?

Isn't a Sari some kind of clothing? -The Bold Guy- 18:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Not a kerala mundum neryathum

The girl in photo is not wearing traditional kerala mundum neryathum , but a kerala-saree, or set-saree.. it is a one-piece sari . so i canged the captionShekure (talk) 05:02, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Ramanadha?

The first 2 pictures are labelled "Ramanadha in Sari". What is "Ramanadha"? It doesn't appear anywhere else in Wikipedia...
89.136.53.27 (talk) 15:07, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

It was a Typo i changed it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.223.36 (talk) 19:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Sari (female garment) → Sari — This article was moved from the plain title about a month ago, and it never should have been. The garment, being far more commonly known and far more linked to through the term, is plainly the primary topic for Sari compared to the other uses listed at Sari (disambiguation). ShelfSkewed Talk 05:12, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support. Agree this is the primary topic. Andrewa (talk) 13:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
• Comment Better Solution: Move page to Saree

  The word sari has many referents. It would be better to move the page relating to the garment to a neutral yet relevant title of Saree. It would be amicable and yet relevant. thanks Robin klein (talk) 14:11, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Question and comment: Isn't sari the more common spelling? I think that disambiguating by moving a topic to a less common spelling just because it is less ambiguous is not a sound method. But if I'm mistaken, and saree is as common as sari, then this alternative is worth considering.--ShelfSkewed Talk 14:47, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: What should have occurred to me: Even if the garment article were moved to Saree, that wouldn't settle the discussion about whether there is a primary topic for the term sari, which is the core of the issue here.--ShelfSkewed Talk 14:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support move to "Sari" - There is clearly nothing else on the dismabiguation page which is as notable as the garment. Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 00:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
• Support it seems to be primary usage. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 05:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
• Support per nom. But don't forget to add the proper 'otheruses' hatnote -- œ^™ 20:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moving to female garment, to distinguishing it

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move --Parthava (talk) 22:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)overruled...see below. DMacks (talk) 00:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support - Because GPS applications are unable to recognise the article of Sari, Also many of the Links in the Whatlinkshere are from pages linking to the Sari Page,

Sari itself has too many meanings,
Also many of the pages linked to the Sari (female garment). --Parthava (talk) 22:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Admin here, stepping in to block this move. I strongly object to the way the "discussion" was handled. It's clearly controversial, as evidenced by the very recent discussion in the immediately preceding section that came to the opposite conclusion, so it's pretty inappropriate to WP:BOLDly go against it. DMacks (talk) 00:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Cost of A Sari

Hi, How much does a sari cost in the U.S.A? In dollars not rupees. Where can you buy a sari in Illinois U.S too?

Thanks. ~~Posted by Puffy Puffy~~

Hi Puffy Puffy, this page is for comments on improving the article only. You need the reference desk here. Copana2002 (talk) 22:17, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

The claim to derive from sattika is unlikely to be correct. Pali English Dictionary directs from sattika > tala "a flat surface, level, ground", here it records talasattika "in talasattikaṃ uggirati to lift up the palm of the hand". Not recorded in Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary. So one wonders where the references point? 86.26.1.194 (talk) 12:50, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Pls see this edit of mine ([5]) in response to your query. Arjun^codename024 18:15, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

yes, that's more plausible. Thanks 86.26.1.194 (talk) 09:42, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Meaningless list of types of saris

I see two problems with the section Types of saris. The first paragraph talks about different styles in South Asia, while it's clear from the list that only regions of India are considered. Secondly, the list is to a large extent only a list of places. Because there is no description of the particular sari styles there, the list is rather off-topic. I don't think a particular style (or place in India) is worth mentioning in this article, unless it is described. --HelgeStenstrom (talk) 23:40, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Saree in Sahara Desert

Women in Sahara Desert have been wearing long clothes around them that resemble modern Indian saree. An important note on the history of sari is that in the medieval and older days, sari was not like what it is today. I doubt it could be called a sari because it was at best a loin cloth worn around the waist and not extending below the knee. Sculptures and paintings in South India up to 15th century clearly show this. 69.81.67.237 (talk) 22:15, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

File:Modern Low Rise Sari.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Removed spammy link

I removed this spammy link:

• Want to know what is Indian Sari and how it is worn?

I'm keeping it here in case others think it's not spammy. But the site itself looked like domain spam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.149.140 (talk) 20:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Request for protection made

A request for Semi-protection has been made to avoid IP vandalism.WikiMan88 (talk) 14:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Who is Rangaswamy Satakopan?

Section Sari#Disadvantages
Who is Rangaswamy Satakopan? All I can understand he was a journalist and won an American journalism award.
There is no more impractical dress in the world than the sari.
– This is his personal (weird) opinion! --Tito Dutta ✉ 09:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Not the Satavahana style of painting in picture of first sari at bottom of page

The first picture of a sari at the bottom is not of the Satavahana stle of painting, it's more likely from over 1000 years later, essentially identical to a Vijayanagar empire period style, see these murals from the Lepakshi temples like the Veerabhadra Temple, Lepakshi ceiling mural from the Vijayanagar period [6] The Satavahana style of painting can be seen at the Ajanta murals, see [7]Gopinaganath (talk) 17:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

do you mean to say vijayanagara empire ??

Etymology is wrong

It states that the word sati means 'strip of cloth' and that led to the modern sari. It references two sanskrit dictionaries, only one of which is available online (the one given in the sari reference[8] shows image captures of the printed dictionary, this digital version is better and more complete[9]). The Monier Williams dictionary referenced is considered to be one of the best. The problem is that the Monier Williams Sanskrit English dictionary doesn't translate sati to refer to any type of clothing or cloth. Here is what it states at this version of Monier Williams dictionary[10] (more complete version than the printed one referenced):

≫ satī 1 satī́ f. (fem. of sat • for 2. See P. 1138, col. 2) her ladyship, your ladyship (= bhavatī, sometimes = ‘you’) MBh • a good and virtuous or faithful wife (esp. applied in later use to the faithful wife [popularly called Suttee who burns herself with her husband’s corpse W • compar. satī-tarā, sati-t○ or sat-t○) Kāv. VarBṛS. Kathās. &c • a wife, female (of an animal) BhP • a female ascetic MW • a fragrant earth L • two kinds of metre Col • N. of the wife of Viśvāmitra RV • of the goddess Durgā or Umā (sometimes described as Truth personified or as a daughter of Daksha and wife of Bhava “ṣiva, and sometimes represented as putting an end to herself by Yoga, or at a later period burning herself on the funeral pyre of her husband) Pur. Kum • of one of the wives of Aṅgiras BhP • of various women of modern times (also -devii) Cat

The more complete version of the searchable dictionary[11], gives a few more definitions, but none are 'strip of cloth' or anything related to that. I checked 3 other online Sanskrit dictionaries[12], 2 of which said more or less the same thing, the third one is a non-traditional dictionary, it claims this about it's translations:

"Sanskrit - English for spoken Sanskrit. Which means that it is designed to contain the mostly used common words necessary for daily communication."

In other words it includes colloquialisms. That one translates sati directly as sari (with different Sanskrit spelling and grammar of sati than the usual: साति versus शाटी)[13], it also includes all the rest of the common translations, but none are 'strip of cloth.' None of the strictly traditional dictionaries have 'strip of cloth' or sari or any reference to clothing of any type. The main translation of the word sari is[14]:

≫ sari sari f. a cascade, waterfall (cf. sara, ○rā, ○rī) L

The more complete Monier Williams[15] gives a few more definitions, but cascade and waterfall are the main translations common in dictionaries. Likely it seems due to the nature of a sari cascading across the female form it became used.

The article contradicts itself by saying sari also originates from the Prakrit vernaculars, from sadi to sari. There are no online Prakrit dictionaries, there is an Introduction to Prakrit[16] which gives the definitions of many words, but not sadi, it does use sadi once or twice while repeating some stories in a Prakrit vernacular, but it doesn't refer to clothing in his translation. Prakrit languages are vernaculars of Sanskrit, words would be derived from Sanskrit---so it's more likely if sadi was used to mean sari (and the person who gave the reference isn't simply wrong on that like he or she was with sati, or the reference is wrong---it's not online), then more likely it came from sari, not the other way around. Gopinaganath (talk) 19:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you. According to Mohapatra, R. P. (1992) "Fashion styles of ancient India", B. R. Publishing corporation, ISBN 81-7018-723-0 the term saree is derived from the term 'sattika' as mentioned in the early Buddhist-Jain text 'Mahaparinibbanasutta'. thanks Robin klein (talk) 01:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Need more research in the history of Sari

I found your article very useful and i appreciate your effort in uploading and updating the article on sari. I found some info's omitted and i think you need more indepth research on the evolution of sarees in Ancient Indian Subcontinent.

I found a book on the sari written by VIJAY SINGH KATIYAR. The book is "INDIAN SARI - Traditions - Perspectives - Designs"

Further details of the book Author: Vijay Singh Katiyar Publication: Wisdom Tree in association with NID (National institute of Design, Ahmadabad) ISBN: 978-81-8328-122-5 www.wisdomtreeindia.com

Go through this book and include the historical facts. The article should be fair and free from any kind of prejudice.Avisbliss (talk) 21:01, 10 July 2012 (UTC).

Sari, shari, or saree or sharee? Or shari?

In the "Bangladesh" section, it is spelled four different ways, with no justification or explanation as to why, or whether one spelling should be preferred over the others. It's also italicized once, though for no obvious reason. The spelling should be tidied up for the sake of consistency, but I'm not quite sure how to do it. 108.246.206.139 (talk) 21:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Afghanistan

Regarding Afghanistan, women have never worn saris, wether its local or royalty. They wore a female version of the Shelver Kameez which is still observed by modern kuchis (Afghan nomads) of the country. I think that section should be removed, it has no citations or historical basis. Akmal94 (talk) 12:18, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2015 - Sari

"The traditional sari made an impact in the United States during the 1970s." Please update this line on the Sari wikipedia page to: "The traditional sari made an impact in the United States during the 1970s and again in 2015 with the Saree, Not Sorry Project. In 2015 Tanya Rawal started wearing saris to work and documented her experience on Instagram by using the hashtag #sareenotsorry. The project is an ongoing attempt to use fashion to speak back to the anti-immigration sentiments in the United States.

Sources: http://www.buzzfeed.com/andreborges/this-woman-is-trying-to-reclaim-the-saree-in-america-and-its http://urbanasian.com/tag/saree-not-sorry/ http://theaerogram.com/saree-sorry-using-fashion-speak-back/ https://medium.com/ummah-wide/saree-not-sorry-my-dreams-are-in-hinglish-d54b6edc0dbb#.s2p97qqri http://www.today.com/style/sareenotsorry-movement-fights-xenophobia-social-media-t57111 http://reappropriate.co/2015/12/sareenotsorry-when-america-treats-me-like-im-illegal-just-for-being-brown/

Jrt001sns (talk) 15:21, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

 Not done Doesn't seem to be much a notable event, more of WP:TRIVIA. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 10:13, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Bengali-style saris have no pleats???

That's funny - I could've sworn Bengalis tuck a box pleat into the waist. Many sites (and personal experience) corroborate this. Here are two sites: http://www.thebridalbox.com/articles/bengali-saree-draping_0052725/ http://www.idiva.com/opinion-style-beauty/how-to-wear-a-sari-bengali-style-easy-steps/1504294 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.100.203 (talk) 18:45, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

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Adding External Links

I suggest adding the following links to the External Links section.

Period Sari Rta Kapur Chishti Woven traditions

Please suggest how should I go about it.

--Nikaytaa (talk) 10:02, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• বুক ভরা মধু, বাংলার বধু.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:51, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Part of the article is a lengthy citation without credit

The article section which begins with: "The nivi is today's most popular sari style" and goes on for several paragraphs is taken word for word from https://www.flickr.com/photos/asienman/23110094672 without credit. Mkkuhner (talk) 01:20, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

It's the other way round. The text appears to have been lifted from Wikipedia. It even credits Wikipedia right at the bottom, although it's not clear. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:17, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

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• Saree. not sorry photo.jpg

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I have a doubt on 117.198.117.175 his edits

Please explain me what is Hora kacche and vala kacche sari draping styles? Samodeyar (talk) 17:53, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Clean up and dubious sources

Random placement of "Picture shows sari draping style of North Karnataka by Raja Ravi Varma. Hora kacche or Melgacche" in introduction is a clutter. This image is in TWO places! Another historical image of Melgacche drape is also in main gallery.

15th century medieval paintings from Deccan depicting sari were previously removed by someone. These were added back.

There is NO published source about Tagore inventing nivi saree. Jnanadanandini Devi introduced Brahmika Sari (Parsi style introduced to Bengal by Jnanadanandini Devi after her tour in bombay), see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jnanadanandini_Devi#Bombay.

I have also added Brahmika sari to sari styles with Jnanandananini Devi source now.

Northeast Indian styles were organized and moved under Sari styles. These were previously randomly placed under nivi section.

These issues were addressed in my edit.VinPrasad (talk) 13:49, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Coloured picture needed

User:MrOllie Please explain your reason for reverting the revision back to poor quality black and white picture of a type of saari that is not worn by mainstream

Your edit appears to be draconian and unwarranted here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1148000952?diffmode=source 2402:8100:281B:C675:0:0:0:1 (talk) 13:41, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Adakiko and User:MrOllie please stop marketing a saari type in the black and white picture that not worn by the majority of women of the present-day 2402:8100:281B:C675:0:0:0:1 (talk) 13:43, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

I have a couple of observations - the colour sari is not bad, but I still tend to prefer the original black & white image as it includes a child, and shows that it's not just an adult garment. The article has over 60 images in it currently - if anything we should be removing some, not adding more. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:06, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Chaheel Riens Your defence of arbitrary and draconian removal of an improvement is edit warring or whatever on your part. Your edit came before the claimed challenge in talk page. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1148006136?diffmode=source no one had commented or challenged here so please don't push false accusations.

one had commented or challenged here so please don't push false accusations.

Any colour image is better than marketing Maharashtrian saari not worn by the mainstream and accusing volunteers who want improvements.

There are older women in the other images below.

If you want please add young Bangladeshi girls in this image. Perhaps age is just an excuse, it is because of Islamophobia this one will also be rejected and silenced.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bangladeshi_young_girls_wearing_same_colorful_dress_(Sari)_on_occasion_of_Gaye_halud.JPG 2402:8100:281B:C675:0:0:0:1 (talk) 14:38, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

The older image is a better image - it shows the garment and isn't cropped, and isn't focused on the face of the model rather than on the clothing. As Chaheel says, it also includes the child. MrOllie (talk) 14:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Please read my comment again The older image is poor quality black and white and Maharashtrian saari isnot worn by the majority of females of today

Any colour image is better than marketing Maharashtrian saari not worn by the mainstream and accusing volunteers who want improvements.

There are older women in the other images below.

If may add young Bangladeshi girls in this image below. Perhaps age is just an excuse, it is because of Islamophobia this one will also be rejected and silenced.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bangladeshi_young_girls_wearing_same_colorful_dress_(Sari)_on_occasion_of_Gaye_halud.JPG 2402:8100:281B:C675:0:0:0:1 (talk) 14:36, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Personal attacks and incivility will not help you get your preferred change into the article. WP:NPA. MrOllie (talk) 14:48, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Backing up False accusation of edit war before a challenge is a personal attack 2402:8100:281B:C675:0:0:0:1 (talk) 15:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Please read my comments again - please await consensus on talk page before descending into edit-warring territory - I'm advising you that if you continue you'll be in edit-warring territory. If you interpret it otherwise, well, perhaps that's indicative as well. Finally I'm not sure where you get Islamophobia from, but I wonder if it counts as some kind of Godwin's Law? Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:09, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

PS: Your changes have been challenged here:

• [17]
• [18]
• [19]

before my reversion here:

• [20]

It should be obvious that you are introducing contentious changes when three different editors have reverted you so far.

This article has far too many images and needs no more than half the number so far. We should be looking at a cull, not replacements or more. Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:20, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

There are young girls in here as you have asked https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bangladeshi_young_girls_wearing_same_colorful_dress_(Sari)_on_occasion_of_Gaye_halud.JPG

17 and 18 are not mine

But it's obvious from other editors that this article needs a quality and colour picture in the starting section to bring it closer to what is the current and the mainstream

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sari&oldid=1093836580

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bangladeshi_young_girls_wearing_same_colorful_dress_(Sari)_on_occasion_of_Gaye_halud.JPGhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sari&oldid=1093836580https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sari&oldid=1093836580 2402:8100:281A:F487:0:0:0:1 (talk) 20:58, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

there was a colour picture in an earlier version that got removedhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sari&oldid=1093836580 2402:8100:281A:F487:0:0:0:1 (talk) 20:59, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Chaheel Riens

please consider replacing the poor quality with of one of these

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bangladeshi_young_girls_wearing_same_colorful_dress_(Sari)_on_occasion_of_Gaye_halud.JPG

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sari&oldid=1093836580 2402:8100:281A:F487:0:0:0:1 (talk) 21:06, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

I've considered it, and still see nothing wrong with the existing image. Chaheel Riens (talk) 06:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)