Talk:Sea Power/Archive 1

Birdwatchers

I was inclined to trust User:Pigsonthewing anyway, but a quick google reveals numerous sources backing up the assertion that the band are keen birdwatchers. See [1] (3rd para), [2] (2nd para), [3], [4] and many others. the wub "?!" 16:05, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Find me one article where the band specificially state they all are "keen birdwatchers". They don't. Its just an assumption. Regardless of whether it is true or not it is not relevant in this article. Thanks for your time. (unsigned comment by User:82.17.179.224)

More on bird-watching

One particularly fond memory is the evening they took Jarvis Cocker out to see the Nightjars in Thetford Forest in Norfolk. This enigmatic bird is best seen at dusk and can be attracted by waving a white handkerchief (in imitation of the bird's white wing spots). [5]. Andy Mabbett 19:31, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

That doesn't make them keen bird watchers. Either way, it is not releveant even if it was true. Can you please refrain from ruining this article or I will have no option other than to report you to the admins. (unsigned comment by User:82.17.179.224)

It's relevant because it's repeatedly mentioned (and they speak of it) in reputable print sources. examples for a skim of Newsbank:

Leicester Mercury: Naval gazing, August 11, 2005: "As they're all into birdwatching..."

The Daily Telegraph: Clinging to their street cred in a garden of lavender and space pods, May 26, 2005: " They wear RSPB badges..."

Evening Standard: London tonight, May 25, 2005: "Catch this quirky Brighton quintet (above), who have expressed a passion for birdwatching"

Tearlach 01:15, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

The Daily Telegraph: Ruddy ducks: we can't get enough of them, August 9, 2004: "Another unlikely birdwatcher is Martin Noble, guitarist of the eccentric indie band British Sea Power, who refers to birds in lyrics, uses decoys as stage props and pictures from birdwatching books on the band's CD covers. Along with the rest of the Brighton-based quartet, Noble enjoys birdwatching during tours as a way to relax and even arranged a concert on the Scilly Isles, purely as an excuse to go birdwatching there. "I think it is something to be very proud of," he says"

Evening Mail: M2: rock & pop: Band to draw its inspiration, November 28, 2003: "one interest they all share is birdwatching... of the feathered kind. 'The high-point of our career so far has to be seeing both storm petrels and manx shearwaters as we headed out to the Scilly Isles, en route to becoming the first ever international rock titans to play this gorgeous island group,' says Noble".

I can confirm that all those articles are false, merely used as PR by their manager. Who was it who said this is an encyclopedia not a PR site? --SaltyWater 13:58, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Read the guideline links I posted below. Wikipedia doesn't view claims of insider knowledge by you (or me, or any other individual user) as admissible information. This shouldn't need repeating, except that so many people don't 'get' how it works: verifiability in reputable sources is the criterion. If a lot of newspapers generally viewed as reliable say X is a fact, it goes in. If you can find similar sources supporting your claim that the birdwatching is just a PR gimmick, cite them. Tearlach 15:32, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Can we not keep "The band have built up an eccentric persona in interviews and press releases; some based on fact, other times merely whimsical building of outward personas. These include giving journalists grid references with which to meet them, supposed obsessions with Bernard Montgomery and birdwatching." (by user Me677) as a compromise? This is a non-subjective view which pleases both parties (ie those of us that know that it is not true, and those that believe it is true because they read it in some newspapers) while giving a reader with no/little knowledge on the subject the choice to make their own minds up based on the evidence here and elsewhere. --SaltyWater 16:28, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I liked that wording too. Grinner 10:18, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd go for "expressing obsessions", which makes no judgement of the truth or otherwise. Tearlach 11:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Everyone happy if I remove "all the band members are keen birdwatchers" and replace it with the above then? --SaltyWater 12:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Aye. Grinner 13:19, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Sigh. Is That Good Enough on The Birdwatching Issue?

Pigs, hopefully you can learn a lesson from me, wub, and the most recent edit. The best way to avoid or stop a revert war isn't obstinence, it's verification. Karmafist 17:07, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Did you read this talk page, before pontificating? Andy Mabbett 09:45, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Erm Karmafist, wtf? The anon has carried on reverting despite both of us verifying. the wub "?!" 13:35, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. I hope this isn't going to turn into another bit of bogus evidence for the Pigsonthewing witch-hunt. The situation here is clearly an anonymous fan trying to force the article to fit his personal view. As with anyone using a stage name - see Sting (musician) and Prince (artist) - the full names are fair game to mention in an encyclopedia (I think they should be mentioned alongside the stage names, rather than opting for one or the other). Tearlach 01:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, you could at least get their names right. --SaltyWater 13:58, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Will the real James Sui please stand up

Give them all a break, lad.

Now my bit on birdwatching: it's fair to say that BSP are fairly eccentric people. But they've also played it up to it a massive amount to fit the ideal created by Roy Wilkinson. As such: yes, they like reading, czech stuff and outdoor things. But (and the only source myself and sui have is that we both go to a lot of their gigs and *namedrop* speak to the band quite a lot) Noble is the only one that likes birdwatching. The others just like the great outdoors. For example Neil (sorry, "Hamilton Wilkinson") walked the 200 miles from Leeds to Cumbria a week before xmas 2004 after a gig, sleeping outdoors. But he couldn't care about the woodpeckers he saw on the way.

Oh, and the band really do hate that photo. Whether it matters or not. Saltywater knows his stuff I'm whether we want him to or not...

Me677 08:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Of course, it's well possible, as with any band, that anything they say is part of a manufactured persona. But, on the other hand, if such details are reported at face value in multiple mainstream sources , that information has to be taken as valid. Even if you know better from personal experience, that experience counts as original research and isn't admissible material. Likewise, see the guidelines on verifiability and reliable sources. The part about Personal websites as secondary sources makes it especially clear that fan sites are not to be viewed as credible sources. Tearlach 10:58, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't speak to the band quite a lot I'm afraid. And if I did I wouldn't talk about birds with them. --SaltyWater 14:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)