Talk:Seasick Steve/Archive 1

Modest Mouse

What's with the Modest Mouse references? It's not explained anywhere here. Only on the Modest Mouse-page did I found out that he produced one (or a couple) of their records. Should be in the article somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.208.184.46 (talk) 20:21, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Past collaborations/ NPOV discussion

A small point - I'm almost sure I first saw Steve on TV during the 2006 Glastonbury Festival. One of the TV presenters saw him on a side stage and he played in the studio late one night. I think this was before the Jools Holland prog. I missed the name but asked my son to Google 'C16' (which was close to C15 - my first motorbike). Some days later he informed me that it was 'Seasick Steve' and I immediately went out and got Dog House Music. I hope this is helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.187.250 (talk) 10:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

This message was typed in the article by 82.152.51.2 (Seasick Steve official information service):

Steve has asked that whoever is contributing the infomation of who Steve played with in the 60's etc to please not. He just wants people to listen to the music and figure it out themselvs. He says all this name dropping is exactly what is wrong with the blues and also what is killing it. Thanks The Skunk (Seasick Steve official information service)

To the editor from that message: with all respect, I myself am a big fan of Seasick Steve, but this article is an encyclopedic text and is not meant as a propaganda website for personal opinions, not even from Seasick Steve himself (or especially not from Seasick Steve himself: see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view). The information about who Seasick Steve preformed with is factual information with a cited source. It's meant for people who are interested in musical history. See it as a history text book.

Before editing Wikipedia again, I suggest you read the following information about this project:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page

Key to the city 09:02, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, it is possible to put Seasick Steve's own opinions in the article, but it must be done in the proper place. You can notice that I've actually included his opinion about namedropping in the trivia section, where I'm collecting different quotes from the musician and such. Key to the city 09:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Update: this message was left by 212.140.128.142 in the main article:

STEVE HAS ASKED ME TO ASK WHOEVER KEEPS PUTTING WHO HE PLAYED WITH IN THE 60'S ETC TO PLEASE STOP!!!!!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM. NAME DROPPING... PLEASE!

I've tried contacting this person and telling him to discuss this here, but his ip keeps changing and he doesn't seem to completely get how to work with Wikipedia... So I can't reach him.

I've been reverting his edits for a while now, and I'm going to stop doing that now. For a while at least. To prevent an edit war. I'm just going to store the information he keeps removing here in the talk page:

Steve never settled in one place, living in 56 different houses in the 25 years of marriage with his Norwegian wife. Since a couple of years, Steve's home has been in Norway. A recent heart attack made him stay at one place for now, taking it easy for his health.

In the sixties Steve got the chance to play together with legends like Lightnin' Hopkins and John Lee Hooker and to tour with Son House as the curtain raiser. In the nineties Steve produced all the early singles and albums of Modest Mouse (using his real name, Steve Wold). In the late nineties, he quit preforming for a long while, but an invitation to a tour with R. L. Burnside gave him the enthousiasm to start again.

It's not exactly academic writing or great content, but it's useful biographic, musical information and cited facts anyway. I'll try putting it back in the main article in a couple of months or so. Actually, I hope the message-person comes here after all, before I revert again. Key to the city 12:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Update: This was removed by 85.165.182.241:

During the early nineties, Seasick Steve lived in The Angelus hotel in Olympia, with Kurt Cobain as his upstair neighbour.

Probably the same guy. See above. Key to the city 10:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Update: Moved all above content to the article page. Key to the city (talk) 14:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

my opinion was asked about it--first time anyone in the world ever asked me for an opinion on anything related to the blues :) --but with respect to this particular question I feel competent to say that such content seems appropriate to an article on any musician. His preference does not seem to be currently in the article--if it is documented from a RS it would seem interesting and relevant to put it there, and not as trivia. Further complaints should be directed to OTRS, who will explain our policies. DGG (talk) 16:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello (Dec 29th) First off i am sorry for not understanding how to use Wikipedia properly. It seems this is the place to contact the person who keeps inserting incorrect information about Steve. I work for Seasick Steve. Steve never went on any tour with Son House as a curtain raiser in the 60's for instance so why would you call that FACT. Just because you have read it somewhere does not mean it is fact. This is just an example. You have now had that from the direct source. We really appreciate your interest in Steve but there is so much wrong info out there and in this case we would really appreciate it if you would stop inserting it since it is actually WRONG. We cannot control the press and wouldn't want to. At least half the stuff we read about Steve is just wrong. So when we ask you(i understand now it was in the wrong forum)to not put all this name dropping it is because it is somthing that the press did and is not accurate. Thanks. (Bukktulle (talk) 08:39, 29 December 2007 (UTC))

We can only use sources you can make a reference to, see wikipedia:verification (please read this, it's very helpful). And the source I cited is an interview with Seasick Steve himself, in a serious magazine. I don't want to be rude, but you can't just state something in this encyclopedia because you claim to know how the facts are, and frankly you can claim to be anyone. If we should just trust people by what they claim to know, Wikipedia wouldn't have any credibility.

What I suggest you do is: you make a public statement in the media that a lot of those names other journalists used, were wrong. When you have that source, you can cite it and put the new info in this article.

Until then I'm going to have to trust the sources I cited.

Also, your version of your story tends to change: before you said you removed the content because Seasick Steve doesn't like the namedropping. Now you say it's because the facts are wrong... Can you explain that? Key to the city (talk) 11:53, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok Listen, You say you are a fan of Seasick Steve. You can write us at Steve@Seasicksteve.com and I will get Steve himself to write you (although he is not very good on the computer). As far as a serious magazine, well i'm not sure there are any. Almost everytime he does an interveiw he is misquoted. For the most part the writers are too busy to listen to what he says or they have their own agenda ie. Steve never said that he toured with Son House.FACT. We thought maybe here on Wikipedia we could at least try and correct things. Concerning your issue about changing stories, since both issues are concerns, we thought we could address one and you would understand. However I am starting to think your main concern is just to contribute and be some kind of authority on Seasick Steve, which you are not. So I challange you to write to Steve and ask him youself. Then you will have a REAL fact. I do find it amazing that you are so preoccupied with who he played with. Steve has told me he is so tired of the name dropping that has always gone on, especially in the blues, that it has really lost all credibility, particularly with young people. He has really tried to do something differnt and then there is always someone trying to catagorize and put in some kind of historical box just so they can understand it and thereby making it normal. This is always what white people have done. Maybe this once we could just not? Anyway why not write Steve himself since you are, as you say, a fan. The Skunk (Bukktulle (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2007 (UTC))

The main point of my last response was: I can't change the info here, without having a written source I can cite. It doesn't matter if Seasick Steve himself would have told me or not. How can people check if what I write is really what Seasick Steve said if there isn't a source cited? How would they know I didn't just make up that Seasick Steve told it to me? Maybe you can publish somehow on your official website that Seasick Steve never played with Son House, then I can refer to that as a source. I want to believe you, but now, my hands are tied. Please read this link if you haven't already, it explains a lot: wp:verification.

It is like you said a "historical box" I want to create. Why? Because that's the goal of Wikipedia: collecting facts and history. People don't come here to find a text on Seasick Steve how he himself would write it, that's when they go to your website.

I am a fan. And I'm not happy to write something in the article that Seasick Steve wouldn't want to. But that's the thing, even though I am a fan, in an objective encyclopedia like Wikipedia, you can't let personal opinions have an influence on what's written.

And don't make personal attacks. Or racist remarks. I'm just trying to be objective about this. Key to the city (talk) 21:09, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Steve's Wikipedia site was started by a 15 year old fan named Jim. It has been going along without ANYONE feeling the need to put inaccurate info on it EXCEPT you. Strange? You claim your hands are tied. Untrue! You can just stop writting here anytime. You spoke of a serious magazine as your source and just feel compelled to parrot it. I will give you another serious source. Maybe you can quote them too. The LONDON TIMES did a whole page interview with Steve. In this interveiw Steve was asked about a video he was doing. It turned out that right after filmimg Amy Whinehouse came in. Steve and her are sort of friends. Amy came up and hugged Steve and they had a drink together,FACT. The London times wrote that the person who came up to Steve was Lilly Allen. This was not just a mistake. They had already written earlier, about Amy Whinehouse in another article so they in their SERIOUS kind of way thought there was already too much about her so they just inserted Lilly Allens name. This was their explanation when we asked them. This was the London Times. The most serious source of 'news' in the UK. Maybe you can add that bit of untruth too. It is printed which according to you makes it true and fact. If you want I can give you a whole bunch of misquotes, outright lies etc in magazines you can use on Wikipedia since magazines are really the only REAL source. You have claimed you are just trying to be balanced but continue to use only one magazine as a ref. even after you have been told it is wrong. It is a bit like a broken record. Why don't you try and find another source to back up your story if you are so insistant about what you are writting. It seems incredibly lazy. I am just trying to point out to you that you have some wrong info but because you read it in a Belgian magazine you think it must be truth and just have to write it. Does that not sound a little strange in retrospect? Steve will be in Belgian on the 21st of Jan. at the AB box in Brussels. Maybe you you would like to explain to him personnally why you feel compelled (as a fan) to keep puttin up wrong info for people to read with the only reason, that you read it in a magazine.

p.s. Another funny thing is you are the only one quoting refrences and just from one magazine. Strange. Maybe you should delete what young jim has written because he has no 'source'? (Bukktulle (talk) 08:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC))

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bukktulle (talk • contribs) 08:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC) 

To address all the points you mention:

1) My hands are tied because I don't make the rules here. If you would just read this: wp:verifiability.

2) I call the Belgian magazine serious because it is one of the most respected here. I'm NOT saying it's absolute truth, I'm saying I can't just change it because you say so. It's about letting people decide if they're going to trust the source I gave or not. That's all. Wikipedia is not 'the truth'. It's a collection of information found in other places. Places reader can read for themselves, and than decide on what to believe. That's the way it works here. If you have a problem with that I'm not the person to complain to.

3) So Son House is a fault. I want to accept that. And the other names, they're all wrong? And Seasick Steve never worked with Modest Mouse on their album? It does say so on their album if I'm not mistaken. That's wrong too? What do I have to write as a history: Steve played a bit in the past and now all of the sudden he's a big name? There is more 'name dropping' in the article: KC Douglas, Tommy Johnson, The Level Devils, Jools Holland, Charlie Gillett, Andy Kershaw, Rob Da Bank, James 'Super Chikan' Johnson... These are okay?

4) I said don't make personal attacks on me.

Frankly I don't care with who Seasick Steve played in the past, not even a bit. I'm trying to make an encyclopedia. The way it works is: I find some info in a decent source, I write it down. Someone else finds some more somewhere else, he writes it down. Etc. And that I can't take your word for it are the rules here, not a matter about who believes who. The rules which do have a purpose, you know. I really suggest you read the link I gave you.

I would like to explain to Seasick Steve how things work here. I know he doesn't like it. But because I am a fan I should just do everything the way he would like it? Key to the city (talk) 10:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

To conclude this: I don't see any sign of progression, in this conversation. It's going to cost a lot of energy from both of us, if we keep discussing like this, and it's not worth it. I'll keep the names out of the article. Who knows, maybe I'll look for a bunch of references in the future, if that would make you accept it. Key to the city (talk) 14:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I found http://ommony.deified.net/temp/SeasickInterviewWordMagazine2007.jpg an interesting discussion on the subject. Might be useful just to reflect his opinion in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.71.63.30 (talk) 22:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok so you both sound like spoilt kids. However I do believe that the person who the article is about's wishes should be taken into consideration. There may not be rules against including the information you want to, but it might just be polite. It doesnt sound like a case of an artist wanting facts supressed for "image" reasons, just seems that Steve has a moral objection to what type of information should be displayed, so maybe that objection should be complied with, like any other religious or moral feeling. It won't be the end of the world if you can't cite a few names. daz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.61.166 (talk) 01:42, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a few comments with regards to Wikipedia guidelines:

• For those who (claim to) know Steve - please have a look at this editing guideline for people who are mentioned in Wikipedia articles.Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Help. Note the following quote from the conflict of interest section: "In brief, users who are personally connected to a topic are expected to leave their biases "at the door". This is expected even if the article is about you".
• Whether or not information should be included in the article should be discussed solely in light of Wikipedia guidelines. Any "moral or religious" assertions presented by a subject of a Wikipedia article about what should or should not be included in their own article is no more valid than similar assertions presented by ANYONE else on Wikipedia about ANY article. Whether or not Steve hates namedropping is irrelevant - this is an article may be about him but it does not belong to him.
• The important thing here is NOT whether "who he has played with in the past" (or "who the papers claim he has played with in the past" as the case may be) is true or not, but whether it is a piece of (mis)information of interest enough to be worthy of inclusion in the article, and whether it is cited by a suitable source. Phonemonkey (talk) 13:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

References

Centric

So, is this guy only popular in England? Much is made of appearances on obscure British television and tours of England but that's about all. I'm wondering if it is because he's only known in England or is it a matter of gross English centric writing. Gingermint (talk) 20:18, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I think he just exploded in popularity in England. I was watching Top Gear and Jeremy Clarkson himself talked about how much of a sensation he has become after he was invited by BBC to appear on Jools Holland's show. Kodos84 (talk) 07:31, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure where to put this, but it's never mentioned, and i'm not learned in the ways of editing wiki articles. Steve played the openhousefestival in belfast, in 2005. He played at the John Hewitt bar

"Speaking ahead of his Belfast show Seasick Steve, whose real name is Steven Wold, said the 2005 gig was a turning point.

“It’s probably the reason I’m playing music,” he said.

“If I hadn’t done that gig at the Open House Festival in Belfast, I don’t think I’d be playing music now.”

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/music/news/seasick-steve-why-belfast-remains-such-a-special-place-for-blues-legend-14930499.html#ixzz1NxAv4Bfe"

Just think that if this is how he feels, it deserves a mention — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.108.59 (talk) 17:49, 31 May 2011 (UTC)