Talk:Siege of Tyre (586–573 BC)

Map needed

It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality.
Wikipedians in Lebanon may be able to help!

A fact from Siege of Tyre (586–573 BC) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 November 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Book of Ezekiel prophesied Nebuchadnezzar II's Siege of Tyre, which lasted 13 years?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Siege of Tyre (586–573 BC).

Wikipedia

Military history: Classical / Medieval Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Classical warfare task force (c. 700 BC – c. 500 AD)
	Medieval warfare task force (c. 500 – c. 1500)

Ancient Near East Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient Near EastWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Near EastTemplate:WikiProject Ancient Near EastAncient Near East articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Phoenicia Mid‑importance

	Phoenicia portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Phoenicia, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Phoenicia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.PhoeniciaWikipedia:WikiProject PhoeniciaTemplate:WikiProject PhoeniciaPhoenicia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Lebanon Low‑importance

	Lebanon portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lebanon, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Lebanon-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LebanonWikipedia:WikiProject LebanonTemplate:WikiProject LebanonLebanon articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:31, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the Book of Ezekiel prophesied Nebuchadnezzar II's 13-year long Siege of Tyre? Source: Vogelstein, Max (1950–1951). "Nebuchadnezzar's Reconquest of Phoenicia and Palestine and the Oracles of Ezekiel". Hebrew Union College Annual. 23 (2). New York: Hebrew Union College Press: 197–220. JSTOR 23506631.
- ALT1:... that that the Book of Ezekiel prophesied the Babylonian 13-year long Siege of Tyre?
- ALT2:... that Nebuchadnezzar II's Siege of Tyre lasted 13 years?
- ALT3:... that the Babylonian Siege of Tyre lasted 13 years?

Reviewed: N/A, this is my second nomination

Created by Pizzaking13 (talk). Self-nominated at 02:27, 15 November 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Dear User:Pizzaking13, the article has just been recently created, is long enough, and is within policy; in addition the hook is interesting and is fewer than two-hundred characters. There is currently no image to review for this hook. As this is your second nomination, you do not need to fulfill any requirements with respect to QPQ. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 03:08, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since Ezekiel did not prophesy the number of years, I am promoting this hook:
ALT0a: ... that the Book of Ezekiel prophesied Nebuchadnezzar II's Siege of Tyre, which lasted 13 years? Yoninah (talk) 23:31, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that hook is good. I prefer ALT0a. Pizzaking13 (talk) 19:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DYK nomination[edit]

why does both the DYK and the article talk about the connection between the prophecy and the siege as if prophecies are genuine, accurate things? This reads like something out of an amateur Bible encyclopedia, not an account of a historical event. Why is someone who aligns with Prager University being permitted to add in nonsense like this? What were User:Yoninah and User:Anupam thinking? 2601:1C0:4500:BFD0:ADC1:36C:22CF:C2BA (talk) 16:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia relies on independent, reliable sourcing to verify all text. In this case, the article is suitably sourced to academic journals and reliable online references. The fact that you think the Bible is a fairy tale does not really apply here. Yoninah (talk) 17:10, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you even read the relevant section or the DYK? At the very least, it should be something like "is said to have prophesied" or "claimed to have prophesied". Right now it presents the prophecy as being objectively related, when theological interpretation is a purely subjective matter. Wikipedia can't present any kind of prophecy as actually predicting future events, because prophecies are by definition supernatural and any evidence of validity is contentious (if not missing altogether). They also frequently contradict each other, or inspire contradictory interpretations. Both that section of the article and the DYK need to be rewritten to be encyclopedic. More than that, nobody should have approved of them in the first place. 2601:1C0:4500:BFD0:6D7B:90D:E223:A52A (talk) 04:50, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]