Talk:Silvery lutung

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older comments[edit]

So, I started this page but don't do this for a living and need assistance with a couple things:

1. How many subspecies of the silver langur are there? I put the two I found universally recognized, but many others are around. Check out http://www.arcbc.org/cgi-bin/abiss.exe/spd?tx=MA&spd=10128 for a list, though it provides no differentiation info. My second reference had four listed.

2. I made this about the Silvered Langur, but it was called a Silvery Lutung in the old world monkeys list. They're the same, right? I've even found differing scientific names for them: Presbytis cristata (rarer, less reputable sources) and the Trachypithecus cristatus which I used (more reputable sources). Why is this?

3. Other than that, generally a call for filling in and more sources and such. I'm not a biologist.

Thanks everybody! Ellieilluminate 05:07, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Taxonomy[edit]

It's hard to pin down exactly what is even a species these days. New work by primatologists divides species and creates new subspecies based on very small differences in the name of preservation. Karen Strier's 2007 text uses Groves reclassification of silvered langurs as Tracypithecus villosus which has 4 subspecies. However, this page is maintained by a computer nerd who has thinks he is an expert in primatology and conservation. This sight is also maintained by using a biologist's classification instead of a primatologist's, so it is based on the biological traits only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.235.204.100 (talk) 02:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First off, please keep a civil tongue; there's no need to call people names. Secondly, the primates section of MSW3 was written by Groves and is considered a secondary source. Strier's paper would be considered a primary source. Primary sources are considered less viable as sources for Wikipedia than secondary sources. Secondary sources are, in this case, compilations and summaries of multiple primary sources. As such, secondary sources represent a more tested set of data than primary sources. Be that as it may, I have been in contact with Groves and other primatologists in the course of researching what is the best information to use for the primate articles. I will write to Groves and see what he says. - UtherSRG (talk) 02:31, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's Colin Groves' response: "I would not use villosus. It was a name that had been forgotten, and unused, until Doug Brandon-Jones resurrected it and got it inserted into “Asian Primate Classification” (International Journal of Primatology, 25: 97-164 (2004); while my name is on this, I demurred to him as langurs are his speciality. Having now looked into the matter a bit, I wish I hadn’t. The names villosus and cristatus both date from 1821, and I don’t know which is earlier than the other and so would technically take priority, but I do know that the name villosus is based on a specimen of unknown provenance, now lost, whereas the name cristatus is based on a specimen of known origin (Bengkulu, in Sumatra), which is kept in the British Museum. Stick with cristatus!

"By the way, Karen Strier would have taken her nomenclature from Brandon-Jones et al. (2004), as being the most authoritative statement available to her at the time. Although MSW was in fact delayed in publication by two years, it can after all be regarded as fairly definitive! In fact, since then, we have had a paper by Nadler et al (2005, Zoologische Garten, 75: 238-247) which revises the species of the group, maintaining that there are four different species, and likewise arguing for the rejection of villosus."

So there you have it. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Hybridization[edit]

Greetings. I recently added information to the existing paragraph about the hybridization between silvery lutungs and proboscis monkeys. The paragraph is currently in the Behavior section. My feeling is this paragraph might warrant its own section, or a subsection be created within the existing Reproduction section or existing Behavior section to accommodate it. Down time (talk) 16:52, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If no one has a preference, or opinion, as to where the information should be moved to I will be creating a subsection within the reproduction section next week. Input appreciated Down time (talk) 03:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]