Talk:Steve Cotterill

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Managerial statistics[edit]

I notice his managerial statistics table has been amended to exclude a game when he was in hospital with Covid-19. The verifying reference from Soccerbase includes this game as, presumably, Cotterill was still Shrewsbury manager at the time regardless of him being in hospital. There have been many instances of a manager being absent for a game or two and I don’t remember excluding those games from their stats. What’s the general view on if we include or exclude games where a manager is absent from the game itself?--Egghead06 (talk) 15:58, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They should definitely be included, he was still employed as manager at the time. -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:04, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
He was still the team's manager, even if he wasn't at the ground. Same as managers who miss games for e.g. touchline bans or other medical reasons. We should follow what the sources say, and the sources include that game, so we should too. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:28, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And to change the stats based on him being in hospital with COVID is original research unless sources do the same. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:28, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that this is original research. The OR policy clearly states: "To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented". There are sources to verify Cotterill's incapacity for a period of time. --eamont (talk) 13:23, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Phil Thompson was acting manager when Gérard Houllier spent some months recovering from heart surgery. Missing a few games for a temporary illness is not the same thing seen as they are still picking the team and directing things from home.--EchetusXe 15:35, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The sources used in this case acknowledge that Cotterill was not able to pick and direct from home - he was incapacitated in the ICU. I'm not a doctor, but this seems comparable to recovering from heart surgery. I'm not very familiar with established convention, but if an exception was made for heart surgery, it seems like an exception could be made here. What makes one exceptional and the other not? Further, is there a convention for a "gold standard" source on these issues? Soccerbase, the English National Football Archive, and Manager Stats are all inconsistent with regards to which games are/should be counted (not just for Cotterill, but for any number of managers, clubs, and players). In some cases the disparity is stark. Do these sources take precedence over news reports (such as those used to support the claim that Cotterill was absent)? Is there, generally, a priority in which these sources should be considered when there is disagreement? --eamont (talk) 13:19, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally, should this table represent a manager's personal accomplishment as a manager, or a club's accomplishment while a manager has tenure? --eamont (talk) 13:23, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Have raised this here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Steve_Cotterill_management_statistics_(again) Comments welcomed.--Egghead06 (talk) 16:08, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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