Talk:Suburban Gothic

Useless[edit]

This article is an utter disaster. There are no references for any of the wild claims made in the poorly written excuse for a lede. The examples given therein, ranging from the fiction of Stephen King to the films of Harmony Korine, indicate that there is no definition for this term, and that it encompasses anything unusual, whether supernatural or not, that happens in the suburbs. The lists of examples are even worse. This is entirely too vague to continue. This should be improved, with reputable and reliable sources, or deleted. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 04:14, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it is pretty bad. I will have a quick look to see if there are any reliable sources that define the term, otherwise I agree it should go.--SabreBD (talk) 06:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A google books search indicates that there are some reliable sources that make use of the term, including: [1][2][3][4]. However, I haven't yet managed a clear definition. It may be possible to construct something if such a definition can be found, but even so I think it is a matter of starting from scratch.--SabreBD (talk) 21:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming that is the case, how would you like to proceed? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 00:23, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot see any chance of being able to find sources to support the current text. If I can find a reasonable and sourced definition I suggest removing the existing unsourced text and producing at least a stub for the time being, which outlines what exactly the genre is. However, I have to say I haven't found something so clear as yet and to survive as an article this really needs to be a widely recognised sub-genre and not just an amorphous and occasionally applied term. Unfortunately I happen to be very busy at the moment, but I will try to get around to it as soon as I can.--SabreBD (talk) 06:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anything that suggests this is a subgenre with an agreed upon definition. I certainly do not find anything from reputable and reliable sources that shows this. My bet is the prod will run out and the page will be deleted. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 12:53, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You may win that bet, but I am willing to look. I am happy to let it run unless I turn something up.--SabreBD (talk) 15:26, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have managed to get into the opening pages of the Murphy book, which does have a reasonable definition. "...the Suburban Gothic is a sub-genre of the wider American gothic tradition which dramatises anxieties arising from the mass urbanisation of the United States and usually features suburban settings, preoccupations and protagonists" (p. 2). I think this is enough justify keeping the article, but in no way can I currently (or perhaps ever) find sources for everything ison the page. I will try to put together something cogent as soon as I can.--SabreBD (talk) 23:11, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not a bad definition, for the nonce, and it makes sense. That would at least justify a stub. But, most of the examples currently listed, including anything supernatural, would have to go. The Ice Storm, if I am reading the definition correctly, would seem to typify the subgenre, yes? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 00:24, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I only have access to the introduction and conclusion at the moment and would really like to avoid paying the pretty hefty cover price. I agree that The Ice Storm would be a shoe in for that definition as it stands. However, judging by the chapter list there is a supernatural element in the sub-genre according to Murphy, which is not explicitly mentioned in the definition (I presume because it is implicit in being a sub-genre of Gothic: although this may be refined later in the book). One point of interest is that Stephen King is specifically ruled out by the author as he deals with "small town gothic". I think the best plan is to use this as a the basis for a stub, as you suggest, and remove the long unsourced list at the foot of the article. I will then try to expand this (or someone else can if they get there first), when I can get hold of a full version of the book, other reliable sources.--SabreBD (talk) 06:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Since we were getting close to the prod deadline I have done my best to produce a sourced stub on the lines discussed above. I think there is more that can be added if sources can be found, but it would be virtually be impossible to find sources that support all the assertions and examples in the old article. I will try to get back to this when I can, but perhaps other editors will be able to contribute and improve.--SabreBD (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Great job! ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:45, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. We hopefully have something to work with now.--SabreBD (talk) 16:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - I have been working in this area as an artist for over two decades, and have exhibited and lectured on the topic of Suburban Gothic across this time, possibly earlier than any of the cited sources. Just added an expanded definition of the genre that incorporated theoretic understandings from a Jungian perpective of the shadow etc with hyperlinks, that is well established, but this has been deleted. Am I able to revise this? IsabelsPicnic (talk) 08:54, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all, I've tried to tidy up the entry by sorting the examples into categories. I believe this could still do with a clearer edit and expansion. The Tasmania Gothic article linked at the end is an excellent example of a topic page done well. If I have time I will come back and add this page in coming weeks.

Im new at this, so please let me know if I'm overstepping or not approaching editing in the right way. Im also, ironically dyslexic and not particularly IT savvy, so feel free to tidy up my formatting or reference layouts. Thanks IsabelsPicnic (talk) 10:10, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]