Talk:Sue Mengers

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Untitled[edit]

Why is this "not notable"? Because she is a woman? The sexism at wikipedia is just ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.251.169.70 (talk) 21:40, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That note was from a long, long time ago, before I made significant revisions to this Wiki article. I have since added quite a few facts about Sue Mengers that make it difficult to argue that she is not notable enough for a Wikipedia article. The most significant entry I added is the assessment of her by Barbara Walters, another who has significantly opened doors for women in formerly all-male professions. I have now removed that tag that questions the notability of Sue Mengers having a Wikipedia article.

By the way, I am a male who has championed the empowerment of women for many years, and I admire the accomplishments of both Sue Mengers and Barbara Walters. So there is no sexism here. Not in the least. :) JGKlein (talk) 15:50, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

More age discrepancy info[edit]

A range of dates of birth were published during her life and immediately after. Most placed her in the 1930s. I added a few, but there are many more, like these:

"For Suzy (as her mother calls her) Mengers, age thirty-nine, the world's most powerful female agent, this was more than a problem." 1975 New York magazine
Although her clients are mostly "new" Hollywood, Mengers, 36 is a throwback... Time, 1975
"Sue Mengers, 39, is vice president and resident Hollywood flesh peddler for ICM" Time, 1979

She was likely giving conflicting information to obfuscate her age; even publications in the same year do not match. Jokestress (talk) 10:13, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good work, Jokestress. So it would appear she was most likely born in 1929 or 1930, although one quote from above (39 years old in 1975) makes the year much earlier, around 1926. The fact that she gave 1932 indicates that any year after that is virtually impossible. Since she was born in Germany and did not come to the U.S. until 1938 means census records won't help, as the last census published was in 1930. Maybe the Social Security Death Index if/when she's registered there. Quis separabit? 18:21, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

She seems to have been trying to get away with claiming mid- to late-1930s as birth year (the range for the above citations is 1936-1940), when it was probably very late 1920s or very early 1930s. I too hold out hope for SSDI, since her marriage certificate might have misinformation. It was easier to pull off that kind of stuff back then. Jokestress (talk) 18:41, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but i think your math is wrong in the top quote from above, saying she's 39 in 1975 would place her birth in 1936, not 26. Hope that does not mess up your guys' range in this page.Meatsgains (talk) 18:50, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, you're right. My arithmetic failed me. 1936 is out, but I concur with Jokestress re "very late 1920s or very early 1930s", as I also indicated (as above; "most likely born in 1929 or 1930"). Quis separabit? 18:56, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update- Sue Mengers' Social Security Death Index (SSDI) Death Record

Name: Sue Mengers
State of Issue: New York
Date of Birth: Friday September 02, 1932
Date of Death: Saturday October 15, 2011
Est. Age at Death: 79 years, 1 months, 13 days
Confirmation: Verified

Source. It's still possible the birth information supplied in New York was not consistent with German records. Jokestress (talk) 21:46, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, in practice the most important difference between speculation and reasonable certainty is to have a DoB report that's not contaminated by adult motives for self-falsification!
That said, we should get the best info we can, and document it in the article! de:Deutsche Grundlichkeit being what it is, a Holocaust genealogist could tell us whether a German birth record is almost certainly available, or almost certainly not available: "Mengers had come a long way for the holy dreamdust of Hollywood. Born in Hamburg, Germany at the dawn of World War II,[sic] Mengers was, in the words of Graydon Carter, “a Holocaust baby.” She and her family fled to the United States, settling in New York." My guess is that Hamburg would almost certainly have had well-maintained civil birth records (as opposed to the handwritten baptismal records in agricultural areas a generation or two earlier), but it's not impossible that records of German Jews were intentionally destroyed, and it would be no surprise if bombing of the 2nd largest port in Europe (only 110 miles inland) was sufficiently indiscriminate to destroy them.