Talk:Sustainable biofuel/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Sugar cane?

Do you mean ethanol from fermented sugar (sucrose) or from the already pressed stalks (bagass)? Only the latter would seem to fit your scenario.--Wloveral (talk) 02:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Removed. Johnfos (talk) 20:54, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Cane ethanol from Brazil

I am just wondering why sugarcane ethanol fuel from Brazil was not included, and this was mentioned in the GA process. Even in recent books (Hot, Flat, and Crowded or Two billion cars: driving toward sustainability) Brazilian cane ethanol fuel is recognized as sustainable, though the former book considers it a experience that can be replicated only in some tropical countries of Latin America, the Caribbean, and Africa, while the later considers it unique, a successful outlier case (a "Black Swan") that cannot be replicated elsewhere, though Colombia is actually following the same path and Brazil has a very aggressive technology transfer program with Central America and several African countries. If the regular editors agree, I can work the section on ethanol using sugarcane as feedstock, at least with the Brazilian and Colombian experiences, and even the small ongoing projects in the US.--Mariordo (talk) 15:29, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Please go ahead and add relevant info... Johnfos (talk) 23:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I will after the GA process I am into right now.--Mariordo (talk) 23:57, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Indirect Land Use Change (ILUC)

The article as it stands seems to exclude ILUC issues in regard to sustainability. I think this is a significant weakness - there is evidence that ILUC effects are greater than direct ones. I would suggest a read of this paper for a current view of the issue: http://www.ce.nl/publicatie/biofuels%3A_indirect_land_use_change_and_climate_impact/1068; and this one summarises the controversy at the EU on the issue: http://www.transportenvironment.org/News/2010/7/Reuters-report-asks-whether-EU-officials-are-changing-science-to-suit-EU-policy/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brigdonnwrgwyrdd (talk • contribs) 08:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Moved from article

I've moved this long, rambling paragraph here for discussion. It seems to confuse many issues and is clear on none... Johnfos (talk) 07:52, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Energy subsidy requirements

When considering energy inputs required to plant, sustain, harvest, transport, and manufacture biomass crops (i.e.; corn, rapeseed, soybean, sugar cane, sorghum)total energy output generated from bio fuels requires substantial energy input in the form of fossil fuels. The energy subsidies necessary for crop production undermines the overall efficiency of bio fuels and take away from how renewable they actually are. "This means that these biofuels, generally considered as renewable resources, embed a nonrenewable fraction of one-quarter for EtOH and even one-third for RME and SME. (rapeseed methyl ester (RME), soybean methyl ester (SME) and corn-based ethanol (EtOH)).".^[1] Fossil fuels are not the only factor detracting from bio-fuel productivity, availability of land is a limiting variable on the amount of biomass that can be grown. Land is not in limitless supply, and in order to provide sustainable bio fuels on a larger scale areas would have to be converted to fit the production of bio-fuel crops. Deforestation in order to provide land for bio-fuel crops is the opposite of the goal of sustainable and renewable energy fuels, an argument can be made that the land would be used to produce energy, however the destruction of natural environments can be just as harmful as emissions from the use of fossil fuels. "Apart from fossil energy, another increasingly scarce resource employed in biofuel feedstock production is land.".^[2] Considerations must be made not only to preserve natural environments, but also allow for crop production that sustains livestock and human populations, if more land is converted for bio-fuel crops then less is available for agriculture that produces crops for consumption. Many variables have to be considered in regards to bio-fuel production, the positives and negatives must be examined extensively not only that it creates fewer emissions than fossil fuels, and its renewable capabilities, but how many energy subsidies are required, how much land is necessary, what is considered an acceptable loss of natural environments compared to the energy generated by the process, all crucial factors that must be acknowledged in regards to the subject matter. "The latter concern is to a large extent related to the carbon emissions that result from any forest clearing that is done for the purpose of growing biofuel feedstocks, but also has to do with broader concerns linked to sustainability in the sense of loss of natural heritage and biodiversity, and decrease in the environmental services and goods that forests provide to local populations." ^[3]

Please comment and clarify... Johnfos (talk) 07:52, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

References

^ "Exergy-Based Efficiency and Renewability Assessment of Biofuel Production". {{cite web}}: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors= (help)
^ Sander C. de Vries,Gerrie W.J. van de Ven,Martin K. van Ittersum,Ken E. Giller. "Resource use efficiency and environmental performance of nine major biofuel crops, processed by first-generation conversion techniques".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
^ Yan Gao,Margaret Skutsch,Rudi Drigo,Pablo Pacheco,Omar Masera. "Assessing deforestation from biofuels: Methodological challenges".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

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[1] "Exergy-Based Efficiency and Renewability Assessment of Biofuel Production". {{cite web}}: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors= (help)

[2] Sander C. de Vries,Gerrie W.J. van de Ven,Martin K. van Ittersum,Ken E. Giller. "Resource use efficiency and environmental performance of nine major biofuel crops, processed by first-generation conversion techniques".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

[3] Yan Gao,Margaret Skutsch,Rudi Drigo,Pablo Pacheco,Omar Masera. "Assessing deforestation from biofuels: Methodological challenges".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

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