Talk:Svetlana Kuznetsova/GA2

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Philcha (talk) 14:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, GreatOrangePumpkin. I'll mark Green tickY comments when I think they're resolved, highlight Red XN any that are unresolved when most others are done, and strike out any of comments that I later decide are mistaken. I'll sign each of my comments, so we can see who said what - please do the same.

I'll mark the review {{inuse}} when I'm working on it, as edit conflicts are frustrating. If you think I've forgotten to remove {{inuse}}, please leave a message at my Talk page. Please free to use {{inuse}} with your own signature when you're working.

I'll read the article through first, then give comments. --Philcha (talk) 14:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Coverage[edit]

  • You need a section about SK's style, strengths and weaknesses, and any efforts to minimise the weaknesses. --Philcha (talk) 17:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY Are there any medical or physical problems that impact her play and results, either short- or long-term. The obvious example is Pete Sampras' thalassemia minor, which influenced his "kill 'em quick" style and limited his performances at the French Open. --Philcha (talk) 17:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Green tickY Have there been any breaks in SK's career, for medical / physical reasons or relationships or other reasons? --Philcha (talk) 17:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Relationship - romances, friendships, coaches, etc. Perhaps these items could go in a section after the results, and the break between between this and "Personal life" (which I'd retitle "Early life") could be when SK went to Spain. The current "Off-Court" section could have another sub-section for relationships. "--Philcha (talk) 17:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The catalogue of results becomes relentless. I'd prefer to see only the significant ones in this article, and the full catalogue in a List, something like Pete Sampras career statistics. By "significant" I suggest: reaching semi-finals or better at major junior tournaments such as Junior Wimbledon; a lot of the first 2 years of the pro career, where she's climbing the rankings; wins against opponents much higher in the rankings; eventually only matches in major tournaments (e.g. at least 4 opponents in the top 10) against 10 top players; any slumps and recoveries. --Philcha (talk) 17:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Before we finish the review it would be best to see how she goes at Wimbledon 2011 - I appreciate that reviews often do not come at the best times. But there's enough to do in the meantime. --Philcha (talk) 17:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Structure[edit]

Looks mainly OK, subject the comments under "Coverage". --Philcha (talk) 17:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life / Early life[edit]

  • Green tickY You should give SK's full name in the first and at "She began to play tennis ...", as there are lot of other athletic Kuznetsov(a)s in the family. --Philcha
  • Green tickY Please make it clear that Galina Tsareva is also a top cyclist. --Philcha (talk) 17:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2000: ITF Junior Career[edit]

  • What's "ITF"? Watch out for the DAB page. --Philcha (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Both paras should more concise, as the scores tell the story. E.g. " In the Round of 32 she defeated Katia Altilia from Italy 6–0, 6–4 and then ... but lost ...". If needed, give a wikilink to Tennis scoring. --Philcha (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I see no signifigant difference. E.g. "Kuznetsova debuted in her first International Tennis Federation (ITF) tournament in Mallorca on January 31. In the Round of 32 she defeated Katia Altilia from Italy in two straight sets, 6–0, 6–4. However, she lost in the quarterfinal to Oana–Elena Golimbioschi, 7–5, 6–1. "How about e.g. "Kuznetsova debuted in January at the International Tennis Federation (ITF) tournament in Mallorca, where she defeated Katia Altilia from Italy 6–0, 6–4, and then Petra Raclavska, but lost in the quarterfinal to Oana–Elena Golimbioschi, 7–5, 6–1." And so on. --Philcha (talk) 18:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY What are the scores like "5–3, 4–2, 4–5(4), 4–2"? Looks like Tennis_scoring#Alternative_Set_Scoring_formats. If you don't to give an explanation in the middle of the main text, you could insert a section "Notes" just above "References". Notes have 2 forms: for automatically numbered Notes, {{#tag:ref|''text, refs, etc.''}}, where each note can be used in only one place; and {{Note}}, where the same Note text can be used in several places, like note [a] at Maevia inclemens. --Philcha (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2001–2002[edit]

  • "Kuznetsova began playing in tournaments on the ITF Circuit in 2000, winning her first title on the circuit in April 2001." What? "Kuznetsova began playing in tournaments on the ITF Circuit in 2000, winning her first title onin the ITF circuittournament in April 2001 ..." beating whom, especially any one ranked higher? --Philcha (talk) 18:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest alternating "Kuznetsova" and "she"/"her" where the situation allows. --Philcha (talk) 18:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY Where's the citation for "Kuznetsova entered the top 100 for the first time as a result of that victory." Or did I miss something? --Philcha (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY In "defeating 19th seed Anne Kremer in the first round for her first win over a top 20 player", what citation supports "first win over a top 20 player". --Philcha (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • WISMILAK International gave me a blank page. Also please check what supports "won her second title at the hard court Commonwealth Bank Tennis Classic". --Philcha (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • The cited source does not cover "at the hard court Commonwealth Bank Tennis Classic". --Philcha (talk) 18:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there any way to support "win the first WTA doubles titles of her career, in Sopot, Poland, Helsinki and Kōtō, Japan". --Philcha (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY At "She finished the season as World No. 43" please add "in singles" to clarify. --Philcha (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2003[edit]

  • I've just seen the name changes of "Uncle Tobys Hardcourts" / etc. / Brisbane International. This would be a good use for a Note, e.g. "called the Brisbane International since ..." - and that article gives 1 or 2 refs for the current name. --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • You could abbreviate "but later fell in the first round in the singles event to Elena Bovina in two sets, 7–5, 6–4" - this is a long article. --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • What supports "with whom (Navratilova) she would later play throughout the year"? If / when supported, did the longer-term partnership started at Uncle Tobys or later? --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Where? At it now says, "... with whom she would later play throughout the year (except on the Pacific Life Open, partnered with Slovak Janette Husárová) ...", so you need to cite the exception. --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY No score against Venus Williams in the Australian Open? <OR>Kuznetsova's score looks good, as Venus Williams was in great form, see the final.</OR>

--Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Green tickY "but was later beaten by Dinara Safina in the second round, 6–4, 6–3" --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and in the doubles event the first round before being beaten by ..." - how about a verb? --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Kuznetsova's win over World No. 11 Anastasia Myskina in the second round of the Pacific Life Open in Indian Wells, California was her first over a top-10 player this year" - World No. 11, top-10 player? --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Kuznetsova's came at Wimbledon" - what's missing? --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At the doubles, they were defeated ..." - who? --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • And "At..." or "In ..."? Please check this right through the article. A long time ago, a French teacher told me prepositions are the hardest thing to master in 2nd languages. --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY I'd move "at the Dubai Tennis Championships" to the start of the sentence, to avoid splitting the 2 results. --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I used 1 "of" to avoid a string of "in". --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Red XN 2 consecutive "managed" at the Dubai Tennis Championships - 1 could be "won". --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the Dubai Tennis Championships, Kuznetsova played again with Navratilova. --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still at the Dubai Tennis Championships(!), should it say "beaten by runner-ups María Vento-Kabchi and Angelique Widjaja". --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Green tickY "She did not reach the quarterfinals of any tournaments during the first half of the year. The highlight of this period was a win over World No. 11 Anastasia Myskina in the second round of the Pacific Life Open in Indian Wells, California" seems to have multiple issues:
    • "She did not reach the quarterfinals of any tournaments during the first half of the year" needs a citation, otherwise one would have to summarise the results of all the tournaments and show that no tournaments were omitted. --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The highlight of this period was ..." needs a citation, otherwise it's just your opinion, see WP:NOR. --Philcha (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • At "Kuznetsova's breakthrough came at Wimbledon, where in the fourth round, she defeated Maria Sharapova to reach her first Grand Slam quarterfinal, losing to third seed Justine Henin":
    • Red XN By my reckoning, Kuznetsova beat Sharapova in the quarterfinal and lost to Justine Henin in the semifinal. Am I wrong? Please check the table at the source - I agree that they can be hard to read. --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Red XN What supports "Kuznetsova's breakthrough"? --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • "Kuznetsova's came at Wimbledon"? "Kuznetsova's breakthrough"? You need a citation, or removed the whole idea. --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Red XN Did Kuznetsova play doubles at the French and Wimbledon? If so, with whom and what were the results? --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • SK played in the womens' and mixed doubles in Paris. --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • SK played in the womens' and mixed doubles in Wimbledon. --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Red XN "She then made her first semifinal of the year at the Acura Classic" - how to prove that this was her first semifinal of the year? That would imply that there was no previous semifinal, and it's very difficult to prove a negative. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • By my reckoning SK lost to Justine Henin in the ladies singles at Wimbledon. --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Red XN At "She joined the since 2003 defunct Tier II event Sparkassen Cup, losing to 5th seeded Daniela Hantuchová in the first round":
    • ? "In the 2003 Sparkassen Cup she lost ..."? --Philcha (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Who says this is a Tier II event? --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the since 2003 defunct Tier II event Sparkassen Cup" is a horrible phrase. I don't even think the demise of the Sparkassen Cup is relevant. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Kuznetsova won the doubles competition with Navratilova against Elena Likhovtseva and Nadia Petrova in three sets, 3–6 6–1 6–3" can be more concise and add that K & N beat L & P in the final. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At the Ladies Kremlin Cup she beat Marlene Weingärtner in the first round before losing to Anna Pistolesi in the second round in two sets, 7–6(5) 6–0" should be more concise. And I question whether "beat Marlene Weingärtner in the first round" is needed - we're reaching the part of SK's career where the results appearing thick and fast, and the article need to be more selective. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "AtIn the doubles competition she played with Navratilova into the semifinals before losing to Russian couple and runner-up Anastasia Myskina and Vera Zvonareva, 6–7(8) 6–2 6–4" can be more concise without losing information. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • At "Her next tournament was the Porsche Tennis Grand Prix in Filderstadt, Germany. There, she lost to Chanda Rubin after winning the first set, but was outstanding in the latter sets, beating the 7th seed, 1–6 6–4 6–3" can be more concise without losing information. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm confused about "Her next tournament was the Porsche Tennis Grand Prix in Filderstadt, Germany. There, she lost to Chanda Rubin after winning the first set, but was outstanding in the latter sets, beating the 7th seed, 1–6 6–4 6–3". Was this some type of round-robin? --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At the doubles she received a wild-card with Anastasia Myskina, losing in the first round against Petrova and Shaughnessy in straight sets, 6–4, 6–3" may be plain wrong - Porsche Tennis Grand Prix (Oct 2003) says Myskina played with Zvonareva, and SK is not seen in the doubles. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(more sections)

General[edit]

  • You need to check that the article says what the sources say, and no more. In 1 case the article is plain wrong Porsche Tennis Grand Prix (Oct 2003), and this source is also used for "the Championships". --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Throughout the article, please use   (non-breaking space) between e.g. "World No. 10", so that the number cannot be separated from either the preceding "word" (in this case) or the following "word" in quantities (e.g. 1 meter). --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove "noise words" such as "but later fell in the first round in the singles event to Elena Bovina in two sets, 7–5, 6–4". --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are too many phrases that, without good citations to exactly what is said (paraphrased, of course), look like your opinion - see WP:V and Wikipedia:EDITORIAL. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hint: you don't need separate citations for the WTA PDF results table. When citing academic articles and extracts from books, I give specific page numbers if the article / extract exceeds 10 pages long (as well as giving the page number range). There are techniques for giving specific page numbers without duplicating the whole citation, but I doubt where you'd need these techniques for tennis - unless you cite long sections of books. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I want this article to pass, as: I like watching tennis; and the point of reviews is to improve articles and, where needed, editors. But right now this article is far below GA standard. You've got a lot of work to do. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Review suspended[edit]

  • This article is not ready for a GA review - too many issues by the end of the season 2003. Please check the whole article and fix all problems. Then please send me a message at my Talk page. I will wait for up to 3 weeks. If there are significant issues after that, I will have to fail the article. --Philcha (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also add over use of priimary sources, leads to Kutz beat so in so did this in this tournie blah blah blah. If you used sources which are news articles you would be able to better expand the article.

Dead links and DAB pages[edit]

  • Tried a preliminary check with Checklinks, as you'd want the refs OK before splitting some into a List. I got a code 500, a server error for Sony Ericsson Open. The Internet Archive did not give a backup. You could email wtatennis.com and alert them. --Philcha (talk) 17:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

Lead[edit]

I review the lead last, to check that all of it is based on the main text.

Result of review[edit]

Unfortunately I think there's too much still do without the review going on for another month or 2:

  • The most obvious issue is your English. Eventually I checked you User Page, and as far I can see your first language is Russian, and English is a 2nd language for you. As a result there are many places where the phrasing just looks wrong to one whose 1st language is English. As I said above, prepositions are difficult in any European language.
  • You need to check the citations all through the article.
  • Check all of the GA criteria. --Philcha (talk) 20:50, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm very sorry to say that I'm going to have to fail this review. I suggest you check the citations and then ask for help with the English. The 2 obvious places where you should ask are the WikiProjects listed at Talk:Svetlana Kuznetsova and then Wikipedia:Peer review. In all cases, explain that you are 2nd-language user of English. --Philcha (talk) 20:47, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I will put this to peer review. Thank you for your comments; these were very helpful and with your help the article has been improved. Eventually I must mention that it was my first true GAN; my emphasis in Wikipedia rest on WP:FLC since I joined, and I am therefore not very knowledged in respect of FA, GA. Thanks again =)!--♫Greatorangepumpkin♫Share–a–Power[citation needed] 10:11, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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