Talk:Taiz

I cleaned up some poor English, but I was wondering if there is a standard spelling for Ta'iz (Taiz, Ta'izz, Ta'aiz, etc). If not, pick one spelling and be consistent throughout the article.

Also, I was wondering where the October temp came from. While it may be factual, that's a random month to choose (and no citation).

99.129.153.254 (talk) 03:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

The entire introduction is taken verbatim from the Felix Airways website. http://www.felixairways.com/cities.php 89.189.72.168 (talk) 04:48, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I just moved the page and related pages. A simple Google search reveals "Taiz" is far more WP:COMMON than "Ta'izz": 1.44 million hits to 343,000. Only a small handful of English-language news outlets prefer "Ta'izz", with the rest using the "Taiz" spelling. -Kudzu1 (talk) 20:28, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

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Notable Crimes or History Section?

To avoid 3RR and achieve consensus, I'm interested in seeing where this should fit into this article, as removing it entirely seems highly inappropriate to me as a form of whitewashing.

• • • The Taiz shooting took place on March 25 and 26 1994. A Yemeni killed eleven women and seven men, among them his wife and his mother, before he was arrested by police. When he was led away he managed to wrest the gun from a police officer and kill another four people, three of them police officers, before he himself was shot dead. A total of 23 people were killed, including the suspect

Bahb the Illuminated (talk) 02:19, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Bahb the Illuminated: I didn't notice your comment this should not be in the history section or in this article it's not a even a notable crime. Wikipedia is not a newspaper WP:NOTNP and reporting unnoteble incidences like this shouldn't be in an article like this, thanks--SharabSalam (talk) 02:34, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

This incident is notable, as it ranks as one of the 10 worst incidents of this kind in the greater Middle East/Africa region. It's roughly parallel to the Luby's shooting in the US state of Texas in levels of importance regionally.Bahb the Illuminated (talk) 02:38, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

@Bahb the Illuminated: Could you provide a reliable source that this is one of the 10 worst incidents in the ME or Africa?

Also even if that is true it should be in somewhere else and not in the history section--SharabSalam (talk) 02:45, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Not in the world, in this specific supernational region, composed of Africa and the Middle East collectively. The list that brought me here is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Africa_and_the_Middle_East) where the incident in question is placed third. Bahb the Illuminated (talk) 02:50, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

@Bahb the Illuminated: Wikipedia isn't a reliable source you can't use it as a reliable source. The page you refer to contains original research and I am asking for a reliable source that this incident is rank by not an editor in Wikipedia but by someone who is specialised in this. There are worse crimes than this that have happened in Taiz and outside Taiz and were reported in the newspapers. This incident in particular isn't any special. It happened to be added by someone and then adding it to Wikipedia original research article. Much worse the editor added it to the history section. An incident like this that isn't even notable become notable to you when someone added it to Wikipedia? Do you have any article in the New York times newspaper that even mention this incident? Do you have 3 English-language relable newspapers that mention this incident? Otherwise you have no right to just add ever single incident in the history section just like that, thanks--SharabSalam (talk) 03:02, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I can't provide you that at the moment, but my assertion of notability stands. Either way, we're in conflict and need another party for consensus. I'd ask at Crimes and Criminal Biography, but I could see where there'd be an unconsious bias there.Bahb the Illuminated (talk) 03:44, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay I am in conflict?? Who is in conflict?

• You can't provide a reliable sources that this incident is notable and worth mentioning in this history section as if it was a war or something like that.
• You gave one article in Wikipedia that is considered as an original research and is based on the opinion of the editor.
• I am unable to find even the source of this incident even in Arabic-language newspapers maybe because it's not notable or it's fake I honestly don't know. notice that the reference is an offline reference that seems like a made up reference because I am unable to find it.
• This issue was discussed before and as a result it was regarded as an unsourced material and was removed in this edit. it was also removed from the article you gave me earlier and from the article of Taiz but the editor added that offline German-language reference (seems like there is no English references) still notable huh?
• The editor who added it added it to the history section and that was soo unprofessional in my opinion since this incident is not something that has played any role in the history of Taiz or made a major change in the history of Taiz.
• Interestingly enough is when you added it again and without any valiable argument or reliable source you said that it is notable.!!! and then claim I am in conflict.!!!???--شرعب السلام (talk) 04:35, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

It appears there is a lack of readily available english (or any language) sources about this incident. Or if they exist they are buried under news about the 1994 Yemeni Civil War. I withdraw my edit until such time I can find supporting sources beyond the swiss newspaper cited. Or even find the cited article.....Bahb the Illuminated (talk) 18:28, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I also found that the article in Neue Zürcher Zeitung newspaper doesn't exist after searching in their archive even when I only search for the keyword Jemen [1]. It's simply fake!!

This might result in blocking the guy who made that fake offline reference per WP:FAKE..--شرعب السلام (talk) 20:04, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, this newspaper archive proves that the reference is not fake. The NZZ archive seems to be incomplete. A lot of shorter articles that can be found via genios are missing there. (Lord Gøn (talk) 02:32, 27 January 2019 (UTC))

@Lord Gøn: Hi, I clicked on the link you provided but I didn't find what you said maybe because I need to search again by myself in that website (maybe that is why it's using cookies). I don't know German and Google Chrome translation which I usually use don't show me what it says in the boxes of search so I would be able to search myself. nevertheless, I still believe this incident (if it exists) should not be part of the history section (which is the main argument I am having here). Thanks.--SharabSalam (talk) 08:55, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

sorry, It seems that I need to be using my computer to get the results on genios.de . There is a big chance this incident is a made up story since I could not find any Arabic source of it. According to Cientific124 you said that "Blick and the NZZ, were probably edited versions of the AFP article" so the main source of this incident is probably AFP. this make it very likely that the story is a made up story. Also from the beginning the story should not be in the history section of this article.--SharabSalam (talk) 11:14, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

If the story is a canard I cannot say, however, the lack of sources in publications outside the Arab world certainly is not be an argument for this theory. Even today the West cares little about the death of a few dozen people on the Arabian peninsula, and in 1994 this was even less the case. I mean, half the Yemeni population is starving as we speak, but at least in my country this is largely a non-event, especially when you compare it to the reporting about the war in Syria.

Furthermore, mass murders of this kind were generally not considered very newsworthy before Columbine, even if they occurred in a foreign Western country, so most of them ended up in the section reserved for brief news, if they were printed at all. I find it highly unlikely that a mass murder in Yemen would have been reported on, except in a few very exceptional cases, or whenever there was nothing better to fill the papers with.

Anyway, to prove or disprove the veracity of the case in question you'd need access to Arab, or better Yemeni newspapers published in the days after the crime was committed. Until that happens the reputation of AFP and NZZ as reliable sources gives me little reason to doubt that the story is true. If it is considered an important event in Taiz history or not, and hence should or should not be added to this article, is of little interest to me. (Lord Gøn (talk) 15:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC))

The incidents is not worth mentioning in this article. The fact that it is in the article of List_of_rampage_killers_(Africa_and_the_Middle_East) which is an article based on original research you have done does not make it any notable not to mention the fact that it actually never happened and that it is a fake news (not an unusual thing in western media). There is ZERO refereces about this incident in Arab or Yemeni newspapers. Also this incident must not be mentioned in this article.--SharabSalam (talk) 19:20, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

The List of rampage killers is no more original research than the List of fires, List of floods, or the List of wars. It is merely a collection of crimes with similar characteristics as they were reported in the news. The topic itself is valid for inclusion in an encyclopedia, which is proven by the large amount of scientific literature and the countless newspaper articles about it.

As you state with absolute conviction that the case is fake, I assume that you have checked Yemeni newspapers published in the days after March 25, 1994. I do not argue for, or against the inclusion of the information in question into this article; as I said, this doesn't concern me. (Lord Gøn (talk) 15:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC))

I also have no real concern about List of rampage killers my main problem is here but when I searched in the archive of NZZ newspaper here I didn't find any mention of the incident so that made me think that the sources are made up and that's why I went to that article list of rampage killers and put the template dubious after I have also done a research in Arabic newspapers mostly Saudi one because there isn't any available archive of Yemeni newspaper from 1994 and I think a newsworthy incident would have been mentioned in Saudi newspaper at that time but I didn't found any plus I am actually from Taiz and I haven't heard anyone talking about an incident like this so I really think putting it in the history section of this article was a very big mistake and I am not the first one to say that sources are fake it was also said here User talk:Elhiggins#October 2016 and the editor said the same argument about sources as I said. Also I am not just talking to you I am also talking to Bahb the Illuminated because he is the one who thinks it is important to be mentioned just because it was mentioned in the article you made. My problem is within this article mentioning an incident in the history section and assuming that it is something really important to be mentioned there as Mr/Mrs Bahb the Illuminated was arguing that because it is mentioned in the article you made that is based on an original research and also very few sources for the incident (definitely not newsworthy and most likely a fake news). I actually have plans to expand the section of history in this article when I am free and seeing it full of reports about incidents that are barely sourced is not helpful not to mention that the story is mysterious for example what is the guy's name? The one who did the shooting or why he did the crime and what happened to him after that etc. Mr/Mrs Bahb the Illuminated thought I am ruining the article because I removed it from the history section when the article was actually ruined when someone put it in the history section of this article.--SharabSalam (talk) 22:41, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

And even the categorising it as a notable crime just because it was in the article List of rampage killers is definitely wrong and after all of what I said above I wouldn't believe someone would argue about that.

1. The article is based on an original research.
2. The incident is not notable per what I have said above.
3. Even Lord Gøn who found this incident said he only found three sources of it and he thinks that 2 of them are edited versions of the first one according to what was said in here talk:List of rampage killers (Africa and the Middle East).--SharabSalam (talk) 23:02, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

May I ask which newspaper archives you have consulted in this regard? They might be useful for my own research. (Lord Gøn (talk) 00:04, 29 January 2019 (UTC))

Recent addition of a crime that happens in many places and almost in daily basis in the world

The user @Bahb the Illuminated: has been adding this paragraph in history section The Taiz shooting took place on March 25 and 26 1994. A Yemeni killed eleven women and seven men, among them his wife and his mother, before he was arrested by police. When he was led away he managed to wrest the gun from a police officer and kill another four people, three of them police officers, before he himself was shot dead. A total of 23 people were killed, including the suspect. Now this incidence didn't actually take much attention because it happens everywhere in the world also I am from Taiz and I have never heard of it. If this paragraph was allowed to be in such place shouldn't we add the deadly school shootings that happens in Florida in the history section of Florida? This meant to be an example of how Mr.@Bahb the Illuminated: is treating this article. SharabSalam (talk) 02:21, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I came to this article as part of my work on spree killers, to find you had previously removed the section that I was looking for. If the incident in Florida ranks inclusion in a list like this incident in Taiz did, I agree that you can go ahead and include a reference to such notable incidents. I point out that I was reverting a previous edit of yours and that I am NOT inserting any new text into the article.Bahb the Illuminated (talk) 02:32, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

References