Talk:Talbot (disambiguation)

Requested move 22 August 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. The oppose arguments from Amakuru et al. are clearly strong enough to prevent this request from being successful. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:50, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Talbot (disambiguation) → Talbot
• Talbot → ?

– I do not see compelling evidence that this decades-defunct automobile manufacturer is the primary topic for this term. A massviews analysis shows several other terms on the disambiguation page are in the same order of magnitude views wise (without the potential bump in views from being at the base title), while several articles at Talbot (surname) have significantly higher view counts in a massviews analysis. It is less likely that someone would be simply typing in "Talbot" when searching for "Port Talbot", but "Talbot (dog)" and "Talbots" have combined views which are very close in number to the base "Talbot" article. I am unsure how the current Talbot page should be disambiguated, but "Automobiles Talbot" or "Clément-Talbot Limited" would both seem to be natural disambiguation. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 03:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 13:13, 31 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 08:08, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment This article concerns the Talbot marque, not the company, so the titles proposed by OP wouldn't work. (There are already separate articles at Automobiles Talbot France, Clément-Talbot, and Talbot-Lago.) No opinion on the primary topic aspect, but if moved, Talbot (automobile) would be the better title. 162 etc. (talk) 05:01, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
• Comment - I remember some time ago thinking that the various Talbot (automotive) articles are quite confusing, especially when trying to decide which one to link to. They seem to duplicate eachother in large part and probably could do with a bit of a trim. That said, I don't have a firm view for or against it being the primary topic. Probably the specific Talbot articles (as given by 162 etc. above and perhaps also including Darracq and Company London and Sunbeam-Talbot) should be listed on the disambiguation page. A7V2 (talk) 07:50, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Certainly not primary. Talbot (automobile) works. Srnec (talk) 20:20, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
• Support the dog gets 2,277 views compared with 4,735 for this one and Port Talbot has 4,897[[1]]. Given the amount of other PTMs I doubt there is a clear primary topic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:40, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

• Note: Reopening the discussion as a thread between Amakuru, Crouch, Swale, and me had occurred post move on my talk page on the close. Primary concern was that Port Talbot (which I had factored in my decision since it was presented here) may be a PTM, and thus the request should reevaluated. The pages will be moved back to the original titles before the move, and the discussion will be relisted for further inputs from other editors. – robertsky (talk) 13:08, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. As I see it, this is a straight two-horse race between Talbot (the car) and Talbot (dog). I don't think Port Talbot should factor in the discussion, since AFAIK nobody calls it just "Talbot" by itself. This mirrors the situation at York, where the British city is the primary topic, even though there are articles with "York" in the name such as New York City and New York (state) which are of greater significance and have more views. Similarly, none of the people listed at Talbot (surname) are commonly referred to as just plain "Talbot". Certainly not in the sense of Reagan, Churchill or Mandela anyway. So that being the case, with just assessing the car and the dog, I think the evidence is clear that the car is more significance. Per the stats presented above, it enjoys more than double the pageviews compared with the dog, and it is also a household name in the UK, being an iconic marque of yesteryear, albeit one that is now defunct. All in all I don't think a dab page benefits readers here, it's more of a WP:TWODABS where the dog plus the disambiguation page can be separately listed atop the Talbot car page. Also, the nom mentions Talbots, but is that a clash? Does anyone call it "Talbot" singular? Doesn't seem like that's to be considered either. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 13:25, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom, no PRIMARY.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:57, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

  I've given a lot of detail above staying why there is a primary topic. This has been stable for years, and we need stronger evidence than just "no PRIMARY" if we are to change.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:33, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per Amakuru. Not broken, and I have yet to see the evidence that anyone is confused by the current setup. No such user (talk) 14:26, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Per Amakuru, who argues convincingly particularly on the basis that there is no pressing need for change. FOARP (talk) 14:36, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nomination; Srnec; Crouch, Swale and Ortizesp. There are 46 bulleted entries listed upon the Talbot (disambiguation) page, but no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is specified. One of the 46 entries — Talbot (automobile) — redirects to Talbot, with no indication, however, that the automobile's historical prominence is so enormous that it overwhelms the combined notability of the remaining 45 entries. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per WP:NOPRIMARY, the dog breed is an equivalent primary topic and I could even see Port Talbot being searched for by "Talbot". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:55, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose but it could be renamed "Talbot (brand)" Fma12 (talk) 22:17, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.