Talk:Terence MacSwiney

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MacSwiney or McSwiney?[edit]

Although I understand that Mc is a contraction from Mac ... in census records their family name is "McSwiney", and in later family records I can find, his ancestors still render their name as "McSwiney". Any thoughts on this? [1]

References

  1. ^ http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000518812/

Mac Suibhne's famous endurance speech[edit]

From Irish Quotations (page 263) ed. Bernard O Donoghue (OUP, 1999): 'It is not those who can inflict the most, but those that can suffer the most who will conquer'- Terence MacSwiney, 1879-1920, while on Hunger Strike in Brixton Prison, 1920. (taken from Diana Norman, Terrible Beauty, 1987). I had until this moment thought he said it in his acceptance speech as Mayor of Cork. It bears a striking resemblance to Nietzsche's 'Out of life's school of war: what does not destroy me, makes me stronger' (Twilight of the Idols, 1889). El Gringo 03:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation of MacSwiney[edit]

I've added a note indicating that the name should be pronounced as 'MacSweeney'. This is not ideal, however, and if anyone can add a more technicaly pronunciation indicator, that would be fine. Rbreen 09:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling of Irish version[edit]

As this image [1] from the Cork City Archives shows, MacSwiney actually signed his name Tordhealbhach. The bust featured in the article dates from 1964 and uses the modernised spelling. I am taking it that the form he actually used is the correct version. Rbreen 21:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Family[edit]

There needs to be more information on his family. His father was John McSwiney from Kilmurry near Macroom who actually fought in the Italian wars in the 1870s when the Pope was regarded as being under threat. It was known as "Il Risorgimento" It is mentioned in an Irish-language life of McSwiney but I can't currently lay my hands on it to give exact details. I think his mother's name was Annie Wilkinson but am subject to correction there. His siblings, so far as I know were Mary & Eithne (Annie) who ran the school St. Ita's in Cork, Maighread who became a nun. Seán who is also mentioned and Peter, known as the "one-eyed gunner" because he lost an eye in an accident. Terence himself was born at North Main Street, Cork where a plaque was erected in the 1970s - somewhere near the present Dunnes Stores shopping centre entrance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolavokig (talk • contribs) 13:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to his daughter's book his mother was Mary Wilkinson, an English Catholic. Can't see anything about his father, except that he emigrated to Australia search of work. There appear to have been six siblings. I'm going to try and flesh out the article a bit from Maire MacSwiney Brugha's book. There's certainly a good deal more that needs to be said. ANB (talk) 23:34, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The info I added above re his father's involvement in the Risorgimento comes from an Irish language biography brought out around the centenary in 1979 - I think it was by a Christian Brother Fr. O Briain or something like that - has more info on his family background. Coolavokig (talk) 14:17, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This looks like it might be the one: Diarmuid Ó Briain, Traolach mac Suibhne, Baile Átha Cliath: Foilseachain Naisiunta Teo, 1979. Not sure where I could get hold of it myself, I'm not based in Ireland any more.ANB (talk) 14:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's the one, correct! I will try to dig it out of the attic one of these days. Unfortunately my Irish is a bit rusty. Coolavokig (talk) 17:01, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name in Irish[edit]

These edits alter the Irish version of MacSwiney's forename from from Toirdhealbhach to Trealach. Of course, Traolach is also possible and that's the version Vicipéid uses. Does anyone know what version MacSwiney himself used (if, indeed, he used one consistently)? Or where one might start looking for evidence? ANB (talk) 00:25, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just noticed the monument to MacSwiney depicted in the article uses Traolach, though I'm not sure that that counts as a reliable source. Terence MacSwiney's daughter Máire also named one of her sons Traolach (see the wiki article on her husband Ruairí Brugha), presumably in her father's memory. In any case, I'm changing the Irish version to Traolach until someone comes up with something better. ANB (talk) 00:27, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The second image on this page shows how MacSwiney signed his name in Irish. It looks like Toirdhealbhach but using séimhiú / lenition. Snappy (talk) 21:52, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I worked on MacSwiney's papers years ago and noticed he spelled his name Toirdhealbhach. The monument uses Traolach, which is the modernised spelling. The version MacSwiney himself used was the correct spelling at the time, although finding evidence is not so easy. Here is a reference in the 1919 Dail Debates: [2] A version of Battle-cries on Open Library also includes the Irish version of his name: [3] Also a reference in the National Library's collections: [4]. The image from Cork archives is now here: [5] some way down the page and very small. --Rbreen (talk) 02:23, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

His wife Muriel[edit]

I find it amazing that his wife is unmentioned! Muriel was from the Murphy brewing and distilling family and gave her version of history to the BMH in 1951.78.18.202.124 (talk) 16:43, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

She does get a brief mention. Please feel free to expand the article using the reference you provided. Snappy (talk) 17:29, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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