Talk:The Bhoys from Seville/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: ComputerJA (talk · contribs) 14:42, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Review

Hi, I'd love to take this review. It's been sitting here for a while and I'm surprised it wasn't taken by someone else before. I can tell the article is well-written, has strong sources, and follows the appropriate layout. My review consists of two parts. In part 1, I go through the entire article checking for grammatical mistakes, overlinks, and just general prose issues. I will do some copyedits myself, but I will also post some here in the section below. For part 2, it may take a bit longer. I will go through every source individually and check (1) if they are reliable and (2) if the source supports the text accurately. I will post this once I'm done in the section below. If you'd like User:ShugSty, I can also archive the sources once the review is done through Archive.org, WebCite, or Archive.is. Just let me know if you'd like for me to do that. Cheers! ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 14:42, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Part 1

Below are some of the things that need some corrections. The article overall is flows well (and there were some parts where I was excited to know what was next, especially with that late goal from Larsson. Anyways, one thing that needs to be fixed for consistency is the minutes of the match. Sometimes you use " after 24 minutes", "75th-minute", "Two minutes after", "on 37 minutes", and "in the 27th minute". Makes sure all have the same structure since it will read better that way. I like "th" the most since it's the one I'm used to, but I'll leave it up to you. Part 2 will come later, thanks! ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 19:25, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

• in the 2002/03 UEFA Cup – please link to 2002–03 UEFA Cup Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• stage on away goals – link to away goal rule Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• The motto "V for Victory" was coined during – remove italics per MOS:NOITALQUOTE Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• as every team Celtic faced; FK Sūduva – remove link from FK Suduva per WP:OVERLINK Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• was against Lithuanian team FK Sūduva. - WP:OVERLINK Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• could not send a scout to Glasgow – link Scout (association football) and Glasgow Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• Celtic all but won the tie in the first leg at home – I am a bit confused by this. I saw they won 8-1 and then 0-2, so what does the tie mean here? Perhaps just rephrase to "Celtic won the first leg at home in Celtic Park on" … - I've slightly rephrased to make it clearer - the phrase means that due to the magnitude of the score in the first game, the second game became largely irrelevant (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• eventually finished sixth in the Premiership – link Premiership with 2002–03 FA Premier League Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• recent World Cup – I would just put 2002 FIFA World Cup instead Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• Of obvious note though was the fact that they were managed by former Rangers player-manager Graeme Souness.- Sounds a bit unencyclopedic. I read through the source and he was a succcesful manager, so I would reprehase so something like "Blackburn was managed by former Rangers F.C. player-manager Graeme Souness and had a successful record with them." Again, I've rephrased, but differently from suggested. Rangers are Celtic's main rivals in Scotland, so the fact Souness used to manage them was heavily publicised by the media (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• watching "men against boys." – no italics Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• regarding Celtic, "there wasn't one of their players that impressed me on that showing." – ditto Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• Former Blackburn striker Chris Sutton scored another goal for Celtic – Wow… haha former Blackburn striker.. no wonder the game was so heated. I wouldn't say either of the ties were particularly heated, but Blackburn made the mistake of doing too much talking off the park without delivering on it :)
• Celtic went into the first leg at Parkhead with John Hartson – Celtic Park instead? Hmmmm, Parkhead and Celtic Park are kinda inter-changeable (both names are used for the stadium), I was trying to avoid over-use of "Celtic" in the same sentence, but for consistency in the article it probably is best to just keep using "Celtic Park" - Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• who then drove a swerving shot from 25 yards out into the top-right corner of Dudek's goal. – Please put the final second leg score and total aggregate after this, like you have done with other sections. Done (ShugSty 3/5/17)
• As with all the previous rounds, Celtic had the advantage of playing the first leg of the tie at Celtic Park. – I had the understanding that having the second leg at home was better? The source does not say anything about this. Yeah, you're right. Sentence rephrased (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• Celtic went a goal down through an own goal – own goal Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• back to Ajax in August 2001 – Ajax’s performance in their home stadium, correct? Sounds like it is talking about Ajax at Celtic Park. Sentence rephrased (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• However, an opportunistic strike by Larsson in the 80th minute won the match and the tie for Celtic – Oh wow… I'm going to have to watch these games on YouTube or something… Actually, that particular game was absolutely dreadful - the only thing good about it was that Celtic won! :)
• huge screen erected a mile from the stadium – use Template:Convert Hmmm, given its presumably approximately a mile away, listing a kilometre equivalent seems clunky. I've wiki-linked the term "mile" though. (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• in the near 100 degree heat – Ditto Wiki-linked "degree" to Fahrenheit and listed approximate Celsius equivalent alongside (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• Valgaern getting a yellow card – link to Penalty card#Yellow card Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• after having Nuno Valente sent off – what minute? I've added "..just before the end of extra-time"; he was sent off the third minute of injury time in extra-time (120+3) (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• The team for the final section – Have seen that other editors include the football ball next to the goal scorers. Should you do that here too? Done, take a look at it land let me know if it should be there. ComputerJA Looks fine to me! :) (ShugSty 3/5/17)
• FIFA president Sepp Blatter also stated that he believed Celtic fans were the greatest fans in the world – rephrase per WP:WEASEL, the source does not Done (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• He said "I was not present in Seville personally, but there were Fifa delegates there and, from the reports that were on TV, I can only say that this is not the first time that Celtic fans have presented themselves as warm and wonderful supporters."[1] – Since a giant quote was already used before, I would say it is best if you paraphrase this in your own words. I've not paraphrased, but I have cut down the quotation (ShugSty 2/5/17)
• club compete in the match at the Estadio Olímpico.[53][54][55][56][57] – this is an WP:CITEKILL issue. Perhaps you should merge them, see Help:Citation merging. Done (ShugSty 3/5/17)
• still compared favourably with European Cup winning team of 1967, the Lisbon Lions.[73][74][75][76][77] – Same here Done (ShugSty 3/5/17)

Part 2

• Fitbastats: do you think this is a reliable source? I tried to research who Bobby Sinnet and Thomas Jamieson (creators of the website) are, but couldn't find anything. Site has been going since 2010 and I find it to be a superb reference for Scottish football stats. One of the co-founders (Bobby Sinnet) also is the author of two published books about Hibernian F.C. (ShugSty 3/5/17)

• Great! I saw it was an amazing site, too. Explanation accepted. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:19, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• Same question for the source Statto It's a very good site for league tables (particularly for league placings during a season as opposed to just the final table at the end of a season), and it would be disappointed if it's use on Wikipedia is not acceptable. However, in this instance I've substituted in a source from ESPN which should be fine (ShugSty 3/5/17)

• Got it. If you have any questions about sources in the future, feel free to ask at the Wikipedia:RSN.

• Please check this link here for the similarities from the article and the sources. I made sure to copyedit the other paraphrasing issues I found as an example. The tool I used was Earwig’s, I HIGHLY recommend that moving forward if you want to promote stuff at DYK or just for writing articles in general. Noted, thanks for the heads up.

• Let me know when copyedit/paraphrase the close-paraphrasing matches and I'll take a look at it again. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:19, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• Just as a heads up, I saw you used Daily Record as a source several times. Its close relationship with Daily Mirror (not considered a reliable source on Wikipedia) can bring you some headaches by some editors. Apparently there was a small consensus that Daily Record in Scotland is reliable, just make sure to exercise it with caution. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:19, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• Daily Mail is used in this article. Consensus decided it was unreliable. Whilst I would always be cautious about using the Daily Mail as a source for anything controversial, I feel its the paper's politics rather than factual reliability that the "powers-that-be" at Wikipedia really find unacceptable (a certain cabal of editors here making the usual "grand-standing" and gesture politics you expect from the 'intellectual' left wing). Still, I have no say on that matter, so I will try to find alternative sources. (ShugSty 3/5/17)

• I'm with you. I've sometimes wanted to use Daily Mail, but I'm worried it will get removed. Usually I'm able to find the same information somewhere else. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:19, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• Not The View does not seem to be a reliable source. You use it several times; please feel free to disagree. Would you be able to replace it with a reliable source? I can do some digging to if you need help. NTV started off as a fanzine in the 1980s but has long since developed into a fairly respected (if still at times irreverent) Celtic-news orientated publication + web-site. Again, I would never use it for anything controversial/ debatable, but I think in the context used here it is more than acceptable. (ShugSty 3/5/17)

• Explanation accepted. At the same time, the text is supports is about the media released after the final. If it is ever challenged again, I'm sure you can find a source replacement. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:19, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Most of the sources are strong, and by using the Earwig's tool, I was able to tell that you did a great job paraphrasing most of this article and using sources to support the text. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 02:39, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• Just fixed the close-paraphrasing issue myself. I'll take an extra look at the article in the next few hours. Big thanks! ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:30, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• One last thing. Is there a source you used for the box in "Celtic fans win awards"? I tried clicking the last one in the section and found no reference of Confederação Brasileira de Futebol or the Football communities of Japan and Korea Republic. Let me know and I can add it myself. I'm just thinking where we can put it. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 13:36, 3 May 2017 (UTC) I found a source at RSSSF and added into the article for FIFA Fair Play Award itself (ShugSty 3/5/17)