Talk:The Challenge: Vendettas
 | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
PROD[edit]
This article was already PRODed last month, and deleted by TheCatalyst31. As Power~enwiki said when he declined the PROD after it was recreated, that this will obviously be notable, but there is still no official announcement of the season, or any reliable sources out there for any information. It probably will be a couple of weeks before anything is gonna be verifiable for this page. There's no way to expand the article without just putting in more unverifiable information from fan forums. It probably can just be made a redirect for now to The Challenge (TV series) unless deleting again is more preferable as the redirect may just be reverted in a few days. WikiVirusC(talk) 15:17, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
- I've switched the PROD to a redirect. power~enwiki (π, ν) 16:47, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
Cast Names[edit]
In regards to recent reverts by an IP editor. MOS:TV says All names should be referred to as credited, or by common name supported by a reliable source. Eddie is refereed to as Eddie by MTV and other reliable sources when listing him. Devin is only referred to with Walker in the majority of articles out there, and all of the MTV articles that I have seen. Also WP:NICKNAME says The name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources is generally the one that should be used as the article title, even if it is not the person's "real" name. Eddie is perfectly fine there, and no need to indicate it stands for Edward, most people know that and even if they don't it isn't needed in the cast list. WikiVirusC(talk) 13:21, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
Game Progress table[edit]
Two questions I wanted to ask. Do we really need separate colors for loss versus heavy hitter and win versus heavy hitter? I believe loss in ring and won in ring is enough for that. Three colors for Troika/winners seems a bit excessive too adding to the Rainbow, but I guess that makes mores sense.
Also in regards to Eddie, we need a reliable source or something on air to say that he was Disqualified, otherwise we should just change that to he left the competition. We don't know if he was asked to voluntarily leave and agreed, if he was told he had to leave and DQed, or if he asked to go home himself after be worried about things being said about him being on air. Without any of it happening on air and no reliable source, we should adjust that. Maybe they will talk about it next episode but I doubt it, we can wait and see. WikiVirusC(talk) 13:43, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
- Adjusted Eddie from DQ to TBD, as multiple people have said that he left on his own, not that he was DQed. Also Bananas said that we will get to see what happens to him. Hard to justify saying he was disqualified from show without a reliable source or it happening on screen. We should wait a week to see if they discuss it, otherwise "left" is better option than DQ if they don't say either outright. WikiVirusC(talk) 13:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Charts and tables[edit]
@RealLifed: can you address the due weight, redundancy, and encyclopedic content issues which have been raised about the charts and tables you wish to include in the article per WP:ONUS? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:24, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- It's not redundant because it includes new information which isn't conveyed elsewhere in the article. I don't see how the voting progress is undue because it directly impacts the results of the competition like Survivor having a season summary, episode section and voting chart to reflect results of the competition. The charts reflect gameplay elements, and not subjective elements such as cast interactions. While some information may overlap, nothing is ever fully repeated. Also per MOS:TVCONTESTANT, articles about elimination-style reality television programs, by default progress of contestants should be presented in a table and the presence (or not) of tables should be consistent across a particular show.
- @RealLifed:Its undue because we have no WP:RS which cover it and its beyond a simple summary. If we want to have *just* a progress table thats one thing, but you want a progress table (elimination chart), a game progress table, a bank progress table, a voting progress table, a team selection table, and a grenades table... How do you get there from being allowed a progress table? It can be consistent, I don't mind doing the work of deleting most of them. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:09, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- Where does it say it goes beyond a simple plot summary? There's no metric of that beyond you claiming it. All information here is shown in the episodes and impacts the results of the game. The grenade table falls under "gameplay" under MOS:TVPLOT. Also MOS:TVCONTESTANT it doesn't say that it's only limited to one table as progress would include a contestant's voting and money accumulated. Why are you trying to be so difficult over this one reality series that only shows results of what occurred during the season? --RealLifed (talk) 15:25, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- How is it covered under gameplay when theres a prose gameplay section? "Individual season articles should use either episode tables with no more than 200 words per episode (such as Smallville (season 1)), or a prose summary of no more than 500 words, not both." this is what I mean by redundant, use either a table or prose but we cant use both. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:34, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- "For non-fiction series, such as talk shows, game shows, news programming, or reality shows, a "plot summary" may be interpreted as an outline of the show's format or gameplay rules; in such cases, the heading for this section may be changed to "Format" or "Gameplay" as appropriate." is this what you were referring to? The redundancy where we have both format and gameplay prose sections? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:43, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- ... I'm confused. We have a format section to explain the game's format. And gameplay here refers to the challenges that they compete in and associated elements. What are you suggesting for the article I don't get it.--RealLifed (talk) 15:46, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- I meant "gampleplay rules" as it states in the MOS. The gameplay section in the article describes challenges and elimination challenges they compete in.--RealLifed (talk) 15:50, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- What aren't you getting? MOS:TVCONTESTANT clearly says that the options are table *or* prose, not both. You want to do both, so tell me... Which is getting the axe, the tables or the prose? You can't save both. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:50, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- None. Both are staying. MOS:TVCONTESTANT states that by default progress of contestants should be presented in a table and tables supplement and enhance prose, not that the options are table *or* prose, not both. MOS:TVPLOT, which is what I believe you're referring to, states these articles could instead include a prose plot summary of no more than 500 words per season (such as Scouted) instead of an episode table, but an article should not have both an episode table and a prose summary. Episode table there refers to a table retelling each episode's plot, like this one from Survivor: Borneo, not tables showing progress of contestants. Bye! --RealLifed (talk) 16:00, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- By "Bye" do you mean that you're dropping your bid to include the text without achieving consensus? If you lack the ability to edit this subject dispassionately thats fine (but you should find another area to edit), but please don't be uncivil. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:06, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- No, I meant bye as in I need to leave. Also I've been very civil throughout this exchange, sorry if that came across as uncivil. Also you're not exactly being that civil either, I can edit dispassionately but why would I stand for mass deletion of sections in an area I put all my effort into trying to make the articles quality. This exchange is going no where so yeah, I'm off for now. Happy to restart another time --RealLifed (talk) 16:13, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- My apologies, always happy to restart the conversation later. Before you go please note that our prose plot summary contains 3,000 words plus, thats 2,500 in excess of 500. Will you be correcting that or will I (I think we both know that you'd do a better job of cutting it down having seen the show)? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:16, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- No, I meant bye as in I need to leave. Also I've been very civil throughout this exchange, sorry if that came across as uncivil. Also you're not exactly being that civil either, I can edit dispassionately but why would I stand for mass deletion of sections in an area I put all my effort into trying to make the articles quality. This exchange is going no where so yeah, I'm off for now. Happy to restart another time --RealLifed (talk) 16:13, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- By "Bye" do you mean that you're dropping your bid to include the text without achieving consensus? If you lack the ability to edit this subject dispassionately thats fine (but you should find another area to edit), but please don't be uncivil. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:06, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- None. Both are staying. MOS:TVCONTESTANT states that by default progress of contestants should be presented in a table and tables supplement and enhance prose, not that the options are table *or* prose, not both. MOS:TVPLOT, which is what I believe you're referring to, states these articles could instead include a prose plot summary of no more than 500 words per season (such as Scouted) instead of an episode table, but an article should not have both an episode table and a prose summary. Episode table there refers to a table retelling each episode's plot, like this one from Survivor: Borneo, not tables showing progress of contestants. Bye! --RealLifed (talk) 16:00, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- What aren't you getting? MOS:TVCONTESTANT clearly says that the options are table *or* prose, not both. You want to do both, so tell me... Which is getting the axe, the tables or the prose? You can't save both. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:50, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- Where does it say it goes beyond a simple plot summary? There's no metric of that beyond you claiming it. All information here is shown in the episodes and impacts the results of the game. The grenade table falls under "gameplay" under MOS:TVPLOT. Also MOS:TVCONTESTANT it doesn't say that it's only limited to one table as progress would include a contestant's voting and money accumulated. Why are you trying to be so difficult over this one reality series that only shows results of what occurred during the season? --RealLifed (talk) 15:25, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- @RealLifed:Its undue because we have no WP:RS which cover it and its beyond a simple summary. If we want to have *just* a progress table thats one thing, but you want a progress table (elimination chart), a game progress table, a bank progress table, a voting progress table, a team selection table, and a grenades table... How do you get there from being allowed a progress table? It can be consistent, I don't mind doing the work of deleting most of them. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:09, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- It's not redundant because it includes new information which isn't conveyed elsewhere in the article. I don't see how the voting progress is undue because it directly impacts the results of the competition like Survivor having a season summary, episode section and voting chart to reflect results of the competition. The charts reflect gameplay elements, and not subjective elements such as cast interactions. While some information may overlap, nothing is ever fully repeated. Also per MOS:TVCONTESTANT, articles about elimination-style reality television programs, by default progress of contestants should be presented in a table and the presence (or not) of tables should be consistent across a particular show.