Talk:The Man Trap/GA1

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Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 21:29, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]


Looks like an interesting article; happy to offer a review, but I can't promise that it'll all be tonight. Josh Milburn (talk) 21:29, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No problem - this is the project that we're aiming to get to FA to list for the 50th anniversary on September 8th. So happy for you to take as long and be as thorough as you like, as it'll save me from asking you to PR it later! :) There might be a couple of further snippets of information on Memory Alpha which I haven't included as I don't have access to those specific references at this time, and the ones I do have access to, I found that the citation information on Memory Alpha were either incorrect or the information was wrong. Miyagawa (talk) 21:45, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "was first assigned to Lee Erwin, but was switched to Johnson in order to retain his writing skills for the show." Unclear what this means
  • I've tried to explain it clearer, but since this is the lead should it just be reduced to "switched to Johnson" and then can be properly explained in the article body itself? Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "including restoring the name to "The Man Trap"." "Restoring" suggests that it went by this name previously; is that so?
  • I've added a clarification at the start of that paragraph to make it clear that the story was originally called "The Man Trap" in the first appearance in the original Trek pitch. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to Daniels as the show's "saviour"." All quotes need to be cited- even in the lead!
  • Corrected - also added a direct cite where that same quote appears in the article body. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "for the medical exams of" What does this mean? To collect the results of medical exams of these people? To be examined by these people?
  • "beam down" Jargon!
  • I've spelled it out. It is the first appearance of the transporter in the franchise, after all. Well in broadcast order anyway. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "McCoy refuses to gets in the way, giving the creature the opportunity to attack Kirk." ??
  • The "refuses to" was part of a previous sentence that I thought I'd trimmed out. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The creature reverts to its appearance" Its natural appearance? Its true appearance? Something like that?
  • I've gone with natural, I like how that reads. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This was pitched as a series of strange apparitions that turn out to be "wish-fulfilment traps which become as real as flesh and blood".[1] They gradually become so subtle that the crew have difficulty telling the difference between them and reality." The series or the episode? I assumed the series, but reading on, it seems that you mean the episode.
  • I think I unfortunatly used "series" there when I shouldn't have, leading to the confusion. I've made a copyedit and now it should be clearer that I'm referring to the episode. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "de Forest Research" Is this definitely the full name of the organisation?
  • I wasn't sure what you meant until I Googled it. It is certainly Kellam de Forest Research, but I'd like to double check the source for that or find another reliable source before I slot that in. So consider this one on hold for now, because it isn't right as it stands. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "removed a large party of Johnson's work" Is "party" the right word, here?
  • Nope. Fixed. Should have been "part". Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the caption, you claim that ""The Man Trap" was George Clayton Johnson's (pictured in 2006) only credit on Star Trek." This is unreferenced- it'd be good if it could be added to the final paragraph of the section with a reference, or else removed entirely.
  • "One of Grace Lee Whitney's favourite scenes to work on throughout the series was the scene in the lab, which was the sickbay redecorated, as she enjoyed working with George Takei" This is out of nowhere, as neither of these people have been mentioned before or are mentioned again.
  • They both pretty much only appeared in that one scene - which I realise is missing from the plot summary. I must have over trimmed it. I've placed it back in again (towards the top of the third paragraph). It also makes it more clear where the futuristic salt shakers were being sought for. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • " The animated plant" What animated plant?
  • I've clarified to state that the plant appeared in the scene with Takei and Whitney. A bit of speculation here - Sulu wasn't originally the helmsman, but the ship's botanist. I think this scene might be leftover from when he was in that role, although sadly nothing out there to use as a cite stating that. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "would occasionally try to get personal with the puppet" Too euphemistic; presumably, also, he was getting personal with her and simply using the puppet.
  • " Daniels as their "saviour"" Who's the "they" here?
  • Copyedited to make clear that he was considered the "saviour" of the series. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Saving for now as I'm switching locations. More shortly. Josh Milburn (talk) 22:14, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok:

  • "as the Theme from Star Trek" Is that the name of the piece? If so, quote marks would be a valuable addition.
  • Added the missing quote marks - that's the official name. Random bit of trivia for you, after Courage wrote the music, Roddenberry came along and wrote some lyrics never used in the series so that he could claim half the royalties for it. As you might imagine, that really pissed off the composer. Miyagawa (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The link on "Orion slave girl" is not a particularly useful one.
  • I thought it was going to the list of alien races article - so I corrected it to that. It still isn't good, but since I've worked up all the Enterprise Orion related articles to GA and the one in The Animated Series too, I think I'm going to work up the Orion redirect back into an article. There must be so much stuff written on the Orion Slave Girl out there that it's rather insane that there isn't an article still (although there was, but it was merged as it was completely uncited). It'll be good practice for when I attempt to wrote up a few of the bigger Star Trek articles to GA later this year in time for the 50th anniversary. I'm going to give Klingon a go for example. Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Change a pair of gloves which tentacle-like figures with suction cups, while William Ware Theiss created the rest of the costume out of a fur bodysuit." ??
  • Sometimes I have no idea why I've written something in the way I have. Hopefully it is better now. Sorry. Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • " the "M113 creature"," Is there not a dash in the planet's name?
  • Well spotted - corrected. I double checked, and that was the only place I did that. Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • " It later re-appeared on the set of "The Squire of Gothos".[25]" Is this OR? If not, it probably needs to be in the next subsection. If so, it probably needs to be removed.
  • That should have been "on screen in" rather than "on the set of". After Kirk & co beam down to Trelane's planet, they walk around a corner and take a jump back as the creature (well the costume anyway) is standing there in an alcove. I cited it to the episode out of ease since it is seen on screen, but if you prefer I can check some of the sources I have access to with plot descriptions and see if it is specifically mentioned in the description for "The Squire of Gothos"? Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with Spock's actions in that episode directly confronting this opinion" Confronting? Is that what you mean?
  • I did, as Spock refuses to kill the cavemen-esque aliens in that episode. But I've realised that actually that is drifting off topic as it's about a separate episode and should be discussed there. So I've removed that line. Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "it undoubtedly troubled the doctor for some time after the event" Name?
  • " David Greven, in his book Gender and Sexuality in Star Trek, compared the creature from "The Man Trap" to T'Pol's (Jolene Blalock) actions towards Captain Jonathan Archer (Scott Bakula) in the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Twilight". He added that with her having a sexual relationship with Archer who had no long-term memory, it was if she was "draining him of life force"." I'm struggling with this
  • I've kept the quote, but otherwise shortened the second sentence as it was going off topic and "Twilight" needs a good paragraph to explain it properly. Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Block and Erdmann also discussed another part of the episode where Spock is in charge on the bridge and Uhura begins to flirt with him, calling it a "quintessential scene of the series".[35] This was because although it featured no-where else in The Original Series, they suggested that it only took "a small leap" to land at a similar conclusion that the writers of the 2009 reboot film Star Trek." I'm definitely struggling with this.
  • I've simplified that quite a bit. I got too wordy with it. Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In previewing the broadcast of "The Man Trap" and of Star Trek in general, The Daily Reporter said that while there were "usual far-fetched suppositions", Shatner and the plots were praised." I don't follow
  • " although certain elements of the show were not yet in place such as the stereotyped death of redshirted characters along with the lack of red and yellow alerts (instead referred to as general quarters three and four)" I'm struggling with this as well, I'm afraid
  • I've broken it up a little bit and explained the death part (as it wasn't clear since crewmen did die in this episode). Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I'm certainly not going to demand this for GAC, I do note that there seems to be a lot of hits on Google Scholar- see here. A good batch of them will surely have something of relevance.
  • Thanks, I'll take a look through those. One particularly exciting bit is a decent source to be used on Ömer the Tourist in Star Trek, which I'd left out of this article entirely since I couldn't track down one decent source. It is technically the first Star Trek film, although unofficial, and parodied "The Man Trap". I've been searching for sources since I started work on the Star Trek stuff as I wanted to take it to DYK because it'd be a cracking hook. Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Generally strong, though I've done a moderate amount of copyediting. Josh Milburn (talk) 23:05, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The images check out; I'm happy with the sources used/the formatting at an initial glance for GA purposes. Josh Milburn (talk) 01:01, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry J, completely missed these notes until just now. I thought I had it on my watchlist and was looking out for it, but I hadn't added it after all! Happy with those cats, that's a quick addition I can make immediately and then I'll work through the other notes. Miyagawa (talk) 11:12, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, responded to everything - but I still need to track down a secondary source for the appearance of the creature in "The Squire of Gothos". Miyagawa (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and the Kellam de Forest point as well! Miyagawa (talk) 12:56, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, fixed both those issues - added a secondary cite from Tor.com for the appearance, and found a letter between Roddenberry and Isaac Asimov discussing a mistake in another episode, but gave the full name of the research company. Miyagawa (talk) 13:25, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I'm happy that this makes for a solid GA; a little more work may be needed for FA, but I'm certainly happy to promote it to GA status at this time. Josh Milburn (talk) 11:34, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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