Talk:The Velvet Underground

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Former good article nomineeThe Velvet Underground was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 18, 2006Good article nomineeNot listed

Redundant section[edit]

I've moved the following section here as it appears to me not to be that useful. The musicians are all mentioned within the article, and if they are significant they are also listed in several places in the article - in the info box under Past members, in the Lineups section, and then again in the Timeline. Removing it, though, may be contentious, so I am placing it here for others to consider if it is worth discussing putting it back. SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:47, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the article suffers from the loss of this section—in fact, I think its removal is an improvement—and as you wrote, the information appears elsewhere in the article (usually in more reader-friendly format). — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 06:57, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Temporary members, additional live and studio musicians[edit]

  • Angus MacLise – sat in on percussion with Tucker switching to bass guitar and Cale and Morrison to lead vocals during a Chicago engagement when Reed was taken ill with hepatitis, June–July 1966.
  • Henry Flynt – stand-in for Cale for four live dates during September 1966.[1]
  • Nico – collaborator on vocals with the band on four tracks on The Velvet Underground & Nico and several Exploding Plastic Inevitable engagements, 1966–1967. In addition, about half of the tracks on Nico's 1967 debut LP, Chelsea Girl, include songs written by Reed and/or with Reed, Cale and Morrison playing. Some of these songs are included on compilations like the Peel Slowly and See box set and the Gold 2-CD set.
  • Billy Yule – stand-in on drums for a pregnant Tucker on two tracks on Loaded, at the Max's Kansas City 1970 engagement (and on the live album), and the 1973 Boston engagement.
  • Tommy Castanaro – stand-in on drums for a pregnant Tucker on two tracks on Loaded.
  • Adrian Barber – stand-in on drums for a pregnant Tucker on a number of tracks on Loaded.
  • Larry Estridge – tour stand-in (bass guitar) for Walter Powers, June 1971.
  • Rob Norris (of the Bongos) – tour member (guitar) for the 1972 UK Squeeze tour.
  • George Kay – tour member (bass guitar) for the 1972 UK Squeeze tour and the 1973 Boston engagement.
  • Don Silverman – tour member (guitar) for the 1972 UK Squeeze tour.
  • Mark Nauseef – tour member (drums) for the 1972 UK Squeeze tour.
  • Ian Paice – session musician (drums) for Squeeze (1973).

References

  1. ^ Cook, Alex V. (December 5, 2007). "Alex V. Cook: A Hypothesis Supporting the Possibility of Henry Flynt Having Invented Everything". Alexvcook.blogspot.com. Retrieved October 29, 2011.

Sources in lead fail verification[edit]

The two sources cited in the lead to support the statement that the band's subject matter, musical experimentation, and attitudes were influential in the development of punk and alternative music don't support that statement.

The first source, All Yesterday's Parties, is a collection of articles and reviews of the band. The page cited is a 1969 review by Lester Bangs of the third Velvet Underground album. In 1969, Bangs could not have written that the Velvet Underground would influence musical styles that had not yet been invented.

The second source, Post-Secular Philosophy, is a book about philosophy. The page cited doesn't mention the Velvet Underground, and according to Google Books, neither the word "Velvet" nor "Underground" appears elsewhere in the book.

Both sources have been in the article a very long time. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 13:57, 20 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There's a lot of "according to whom?" notifications on this article about some incredibly basic/obvious descriptions: "Reed's songs and singing are subdued and confessional in nature" [according to whom?] - anyone who's heard the album would agree with this statement and a source isn't required. "and two of Reed's best-known songs,[according to whom?] "Sweet Jane" and "Rock and Roll"." - both of these songs were singles taken off of Loaded and receieved AM radio play in 1971. Both of them were also staples of Reed's solo shows for YEARS. So again, we're not talking rocket-science "need to source sources" kind of observations here, please remove these "According to whom" notifications because they actually pollute the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.57.193.135 (talk) 15:30, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect use of photo purporting to be Nico[edit]

The page currently includes a photograph purporting to be Nico, captioned as follows: "Nico performing with Andy Warhol's Exploding Plastic Inevitable in Ann Arbor, Michigan, 1966". I am certain that this photo does not in fact depict Nico, but is actually Catherine James, who occasionally performed onstage with the Velvet Underground for their Exploding Plastic Inevitable shows. She was a model who hung out with the Factory clique for a while (as described in her book, "Dandelion; Memoir Of A Free Spirit"). The angle of the photograph obscures her face, which is probably why the error has been made.

Nico never wore dresses onstage with the Velvets, certainly not flowery patterns! She wore trouser suits. We can verify this was the case for the Ann Arbor show specifically, thanks to a news article covering the actual event: Velvet Underground Live at the Ann Arbor Film Festival, Detroit, Michigan, on the 12th of March 1966. The concert was reviewed by the Detroit Free Press on Tuesday 15 March 1966. The reviewer describes the show as, "a combination of film and live music and dance. While a beautiful blond girl sang, her image was projected on three separate 'screens,' including her own white jacket." The review is accessible online via Newspapers.com - https://www.newspapers.com/image/97864650/?terms=%22Festival%2C%2Band%2Bfilms%2Bby%2BWarhol%22

See also: https://dangerousminds.net/comments/amazing_mod_wedding_with_andy_warhol_the_velvet_underground_nico_1966?fbclid=IwAR0wCIQ03KWf2Pn3D2mH4n3hxeKciq0gC1_Ydb9PEa7xvAYRtmn-gJ2ZLsg

I recently edited the page to remove this misleading photograph, but it was reinstated on 19:37, 22 September 2020‎ by Wiki user Freshacconci. I would welcome any third party viewpoints to help resolve this dispute.

For additional reference, here are five photographs showing Nico's typical stage wear circa 1966:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9nPJJ3xLzCg/W24ToZnZ8JI/AAAAAAAAxBY/b7fdWF8XGswG-LA6dC7HqKTiP74IO9fzwCLcBGAs/s1600/The%2BVelvet%2BUnderground%2Band%2BNico%2Bplay%2BAction%2BDisco%2Bin%2BLong%2BIsland%252C%2BNew%2BYork%252C%2Bas%2Bpart%2Bof%2Bthe%2BExploding%2BPlastic%2BInevitable%252C%2B1966..jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fwxDlBKUlqw/W24ToNPmKyI/AAAAAAAAxBU/R7eNifdv9AYsA2IVkUFMuihlPX5INxCbACLcBGAs/s1600/The%2BVelvet%2BUnderground%2BEast%2BVillage%252C%2BNew%2BYork%2BApril%2B7%252C%2B1966.jpg

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEDHkFgOU0AI_yB1.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdark_shark%2Fstatus%2F1166964567454257152&tbnid=LqHUUSsNrKF8XM&vet=10CAUQxiAoBWoXChMIkJ-o2KLB7AIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAk..i&docid=huB50lRJ1f1_hM&w=940&h=852&itg=1&q=%22Velvet%20Underground%22%20Michigan&hl=en-GB&ved=0CAUQxiAoBWoXChMIkJ-o2KLB7AIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAk

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEDHkFgOU0AI_yB1.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdark_shark%2Fstatus%2F1166964567454257152&tbnid=LqHUUSsNrKF8XM&vet=10CAUQxiAoBWoXChMIkJ-o2KLB7AIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAk..i&docid=huB50lRJ1f1_hM&w=940&h=852&itg=1&q=%22Velvet%20Underground%22%20Michigan&hl=en-GB&ved=0CAUQxiAoBWoXChMIkJ-o2KLB7AIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAk#imgrc=LqHUUSsNrKF8XM&imgdii=fwtzTHv8KpFcKM

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEDHkFgOU0AI_yB1.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdark_shark%2Fstatus%2F1166964567454257152&tbnid=LqHUUSsNrKF8XM&vet=10CAUQxiAoBWoXChMIkJ-o2KLB7AIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAk..i&docid=huB50lRJ1f1_hM&w=940&h=852&itg=1&q=%22Velvet%20Underground%22%20Michigan&hl=en-GB&ved=0CAUQxiAoBWoXChMIkJ-o2KLB7AIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAk#imgrc=fwtzTHv8KpFcKM&imgdii=j0mtBuEIkdlTnM — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvernon123 (talk • contribs) 19:30, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

British-American band[edit]

Shouldn't they be called a British-American band because of John Cale? Bands such as Fleetwood Mac and the Foreigner are classified as British-American. GreatLakesShips (talk) 18:59, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, because :Cale was living in New York prior to the band being formed there. Fleetwood Mac was originally a thoroughly British band that later began adding US members and operating out of California. Foreigner was formed by successful musicians from each country, rather than all of them being in one place when the idea for the band came up. Both are different situations than forming a band in the US that happens to include someone who had immigrated. Ixat totep (talk) 01:21, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have added that Cale was Welsh. I hope that mitigates the issue. Travelmite (talk) 03:00, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Post-Squeeze members[edit]

Per the article text, the post-Squeeze band (Yule plus Rob Norris, George Kay, and Mark Naussef) were considered The Velvet Underground as much as Squeeze was considered a Velvet Underground album. In the liner notes to Final V.U., Doug Yule describes the lineup as "traveling under the name of The Velvet Underground" but "was put together just for this tour by Steve Sesnick."

I think Norris, Kay, and Naussef should appear on the timeline (as Squeeze already does) from Oct-Dec 1972, although perhaps as live-only sidemen. Some band timelines show this by having the 11-wide bar be a bright yellow, with the regular instruments shown as a smaller width.

I don't think there's a need to include the 1973 "lineup" as Yule calls that aborted tour "a mistake" and the promoter used the VU name despite being told not to. Ixat totep (talk) 01:39, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think that should added final line-up (brothers Yule, Kay and Don Silverman):http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/live/1971-73/perf7173.html Joey Camelaroche (talk) 03:24, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As Mark Nauseef even has his own article here, Sesnick's last VU should actually be covered in my opinion. (It is on German Wikipedia.) Tuxman (talk) 21:54, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

add link[edit]

plz see the Apple plus movie Elger lorenzsonn (talk) 15:54, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. --Jayron32 16:39, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Errors In Members Section[edit]

1. Doug Yule plays drums on Loaded. On "Sweet Jane" (to cite just one example) he plays all instruments except rhythm guitar. So drums 1970 should be added to his credits.

2. Nico is not a member. This is definitional. The first album is The Velvet Underground & Nico, indicating they are separate artists collaborating. Live shows should have been promoted as such, but even if some weren't the album speaks to membership quite plainly: "Nico" is distinct from "The Velvet Underground" and Nico should accordingly be removed from the members section. If she were a member rather than a distinct artist working as a collaborator, the album would just be called The Velvet Underground. The group's induction into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame also reflects as much (I understand the Hall doesn't determine official band membership; I'm just marshalling evidence). The omission of Doug Yule suggests The Velvet Underground & Nico is the cornerstone reason for the group's induction. So why not include Nico? Because she was not a member. 2603:7000:3400:29E1:F4D3:E70A:5AA:ADE8 (talk) 14:37, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2024[edit]

Faulty sentence construction.

Suggest change:

"MacLise was replaced by Moe Tucker in 1965, who played on most of the band's recordings."

To:

"In 1965 MacLise was replaced by Moe Tucker, who played on most of the band's recordings. 2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:ECF0:2E16:36C5:3807 (talk) 01:02, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 05:10, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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