Talk:Tolkien's modern sources

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Tolkien's modern sources/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TompaDompa (talk · contribs) 10:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I will review this. TompaDompa (talk) 10:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks! Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

General comments

• There are a fair number of images, including a WP:GALLERY. Less might be more, since the need for a gallery often indicates an unnecessarily high image-to-text ratio.

• The only gallery is highly specific, illustrating four rather visual sources of inspiration, images from the adventure stories that Tolkien read.

Lead

• I would link J. R. R. Tolkien in the WP:LEAD.

• Done.

• I would give the years the works mentioned in the lead are from.

• Added.

• I would mention that the Morlocks are from The Time Machine.

• Done.

• Further, Tolkien's account of Bilbo Baggins and his party setting off into the wild on ponies resembles Morris's account of his travels in Iceland in several details. – this should probably be attributed.

• Done.

• Tolkien's mature writings have been described [...] – ditto.

• Done..

• Tolkien's mature writings – clarify whether this means "mature" as in later in his literary career or as in intended for an older audience.

• Reworded.

• "Sneered at" is a bit overly informal.

• Reworded.

Context

• "bestselling" is not needed in this context and comes off as borderline promotional.

• Removed, though it's easily cited.

• Dale Nelson surveys 24 authors – that's "surveys" as in "examines [the works of]" rather than "sends a poll to", right? I would replace it with "lists", "discusses", or something along those lines to avoid the ambiguity.

• Done.

• Nelson says "twenty-four British authors and one American author", so that should be 25 authors total.

• Fixed.

Sources

• Tolkien acknowledged a few authors, such as John Buchan and H. Rider Haggard, as writing excellent adventure stories. – I don't find this in the cited source?

• Reworded. Haggard is e.g. on p. 369, Buchan on p. 373. Repeated existing ref for Buchan.

• Éomer's riders of Rohan in the scene in the Eastemnet wheel and circle "round the strangers, weapons poised" – this is kind of a garden-path sentence; I initially parsed "wheel and circle" as nouns rather than verbs.

• Rearranged.

• H. Rider Haggard is linked in consecutive paragraphs, first as "H. Rider Haggard" and then as "Rider Haggard".

• Fixed.

• Tolkien's efforts to produce a realistic-looking page from the Book of Mazarbul – I might add a bit more information here to clue readers in on the context of what the Book of Mazarbul is without needing to follow the link.

• Done.

• Saruman's death has been compared to the sudden shrivelling of Ayesha – may as well attribute this comparison to Jared Lobdell, as Nelson does.

• Done.

• the Barsoom novels – I would link to Barsoom.

• Done.

• denied that the Barsoom novels influenced his giant spiders such as Shelob and Ungoliant: "I developed a dislike for his Tarzan even greater than my distaste for spiders. Spiders I had met long before Burroughs began to write, and I do not think he is in any way responsible for Shelob. At any rate I retain no memory of the Siths or the Apts." – the inclusion of the first sentence of the quote produces kind of a non sequitur, since Tarzan is separate from Barsoom. I would remove that part and add a piped link from "the Siths or the Apts" to Barsoom#Fauna.

• Fixed.

• Books by Tolkien's fellow-Inkling Owen Barfield contributed to his world-view, particularly The Silver Trumpet (1925), History in English Words (1926) and Poetic Diction (1928). – I don't find this in either of the cited sources. In fact, https://books.google.com/books?id=bszM-uwEQOkC&pg=PA54 does not appear to verify any of the preceding text?

• Ah, that's Flieger 1983. Cited.

• H. G. Wells's description of the subterranean Morlocks in his 1895 science fiction novel The Time Machine are suggestive of some of Tolkien's monsters. – Nelson only seems to compare them to Gollum. This should also probably be attributed.

• Fixed.

• made use of elements such as the Dead Marshes and Mirkwood – clarify whether this refers to using the places themselves or their names.

• Well, both; Tolkien the philologist was inspired by names (and language), and moved from there to descriptions. Let's say placenames for short.

English literary traditions

• Postwar literary figures such as Anthony Burgess, Edwin Muir and Philip Toynbee dismissed Tolkien as non-modernist, and sneered at The Lord of the Rings – the source doesn't really say that they dismissed Tolkien as non-modernist, and "sneered at" is an overly informal phrasing.

• Reworded.

Summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   See my comments above.

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   All sources are, as far as I can tell, reliable for the material they are cited for.

   C. It contains no original research:

   See my comments above.

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

   Earwig gives a couple of false positives where the copying was clearly done in the opposite direction, and I didn't spot any instances of unacceptably WP:Close paraphrasing.

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   A quick look at the sources reveals that there is plenty of material that the article could be expanded with, but the article appears to adequately cover the basics.

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

   There are no obvious neutrality issues.

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   All images are in the public domain.

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   See however my comment above about possible room for improvement.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Ping Chiswick Chap. TompaDompa (talk) 08:35, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Ping TompaDompa. I believe I've addressed everything now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:02, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. Well done! TompaDompa (talk) 21:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.