Talk:Tom Petty/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (1)

As he is still alive, let's please fix the birth date in the lead sentence and infobox. So, 

'''Thomas Earl Petty''' (October 20, 1950)

to 

'''Thomas Earl Petty''' (born October 20, 1950)

and 

| birth_date = {{birth date|mf=yes|1950|10|20}}

to 

| birth_date = {{birth date and age|mf=yes|1950|10|20}}

– Muboshgu (talk) 19:54, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Done, thank you. ST47 (talk) 20:03, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Tom Petty died today?

He is being reported dead by a heart attack. --2600:1009:B10E:B1B4:8DB4:C4B4:2EDD:AF8B (talk) 19:55, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Edit it then. But you can't, because that's unconfirmed and admins have stopped you doing it. Ref (chew)(do) 19:56, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
There is not a reliable source that can confirm this. Only tabloid response. livelikemusic talk! 19:57, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Here's one: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-petty-legendary-rocker-is-dead-at-66/ Corndog234 (talk) 20:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Update it he died today Wackley1515 (talk) 22:53, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (2)

Add artist's date of death. Alexbehrens (talk) 19:57, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

There is not a reliable source that can confirm this. Only tabloid response. livelikemusic talk! 19:57, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Impossible. You have not supplied a source that says he is dead, and admins won't be agreeing to this request. Ref (chew)(do) 19:58, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Not done: Per livelikemusic (talk · contribs) and Refsworldlee (talk · contribs). – Muboshgu (talk) 19:59, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (3)

Death: October 1, 2017 Clb1265 (talk) 20:00, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

There is not a reliable source that can confirm this. Only tabloid response. livelikemusic talk! 20:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (4)

WAS. he's dead. Odm56 (talk) 20:00, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

There is not a reliable source that can confirm this. Only tabloid response. livelikemusic talk! 20:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Tom Petty has been pulled off of life support.

As reported by the New York Daily News and Chicago Sun Times: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/tom-petty-critical-condition-cardiac-arrest-article-1.3536756 https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/tom-petty-on-life-support-after-being-found-unconscious-tmz/ Jokullmusic 20:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

These are all reporting on the TMZ report, none of them are independent sources on their own. ST47 (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
TMZ is reliable. Jokullmusic 20:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (5)

Tom Petty had a cardiac arrest today and is on 'life support' 67.98.222.31 (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (6)

Please change his status as he is no longer with us. RIP. 216.195.89.58 (talk) 20:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

No confirmation. ST47 (talk) 20:03, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:03, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
@Muboshgu: is TMZ not a reliable source? [1]  — Amakuru (talk) 20:04, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
@Amakuru: TMZ is an unreliable tabloid source. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:37, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (7)

Tom Petty Passed Away today. Please update. 38.142.32.66 (talk) 20:03, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:03, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Here's the source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-petty-legendary-rocker-is-dead-at-66/

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (8)

Bythenumbers014 (talk) 20:04, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

tom petty is dead.

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:04, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

CBS News Confirms Petty's Death

Four minutes ago, CBS News confirmed Petty's death, as found here: CBS News livelikemusic talk! 20:04, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

This is certainly reliable. Jokullmusic 20:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Agreed; CBS News learned about Petty's death from the LAPD. Mewtwowimmer (talk) 20:06, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Done - FlightTime (open channel) 20:27, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (8)

Died September 2nd 2017 24.38.89.130 (talk) 20:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (9)

As others above me have already noted, he died and this should be added to the article. This has since been confirmed by the non-tabloid news source CBS News: [2] Everymorning (talk) 20:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC) Everymorning (talk) 20:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Done - FlightTime (open channel) 20:28, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (10)

Personal life: Tom Petty passed away October 2nd, 2017 50.84.65.46 (talk) 20:06, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Done - FlightTime (open channel) 20:29, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (11)

died: October 2nd, 2017 Whiterice07 (talk) 20:06, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Source The Haz talk 20:06, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Already done – Muboshgu (talk) 20:28, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Edit request for page

CBS is confirming the news of Tom Petty's demise: [3]

Do we hold for further confirmation or do we update now? ShawnIsHere: Now in colors 20:07, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I changed the protection level back to semiprotection. Hope that was OK, Ritchie333. The death has been confirmed by CBS, so seems genuine, and the community as a whole can fill in the blanks better than just the admins. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 20:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
@Amakuru: It's going to have to be okay I guess; if I re-protected I would be wheel warring which is an absolute no-no. I know the Las Vegas shooting is grabbing all the news coverage today, I'm still perplexed over why BBC News has not even put so much as a "breaking news" template up yet; which is really odd. I guess I'm just crossing my fingers that this a huge mix up with over-eager reporters, and he's not actually dead. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:20, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, hopefully so. It does seem like maybe all the news outlets are going off the one update to the TMZ page, but hard to be sure. CBS say they "confirmed" it. If you do want it restored to full protection, just let me know.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:25, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Now that The Guardian has got an obituary, I think the reason for protection has gone. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:44, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
LAPD was the source for CBS, they are now tweeting they have no information and CBS has retracted their story, TMZ now reporting Petty clinging to life support but has a DNR on file.Dobyblue (talk) 21:14, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Tom Petty has died

Tom Petty is dead on October 1, 2017 following a heart attack. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ftl900 (talk • contribs) 20:09, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

According to what? I saw cardiac arrest, not a heart attack, in news articles on the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shawnfries (talk • contribs) 20:21, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/oct/02/rock-star-tom-petty-dies-heart-attack

User:Shawnfries, "cardiac arrest" and "heart attack" are often used as synonyms. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:53, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

But they're not. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_arrest

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/scda

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (14)

Tom petty just died 24.11.208.159 (talk) 20:14, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

 Done. Noted. Article is being updated, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:23, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Death date

The TMZ article,[4] says "We're told after Petty got to the hospital he had no brain activity and a decision was made to pull life support", which suggests that he may have died yesterday rather than today. I guess we have to wait for further confirmation of a definite death date.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:19, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Is CBS news a reliable enough source?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-petty-legendary-rocker-is-dead-at-66/ --Dr who1975 (talk) 20:21, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Of course. Why not? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
It's in the Guardian now as well.[5]
Yep, in the Guardian[6] and Reuters. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:31, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree. If TMZ, CBS News, and The Guardian have all announced his death, then I think it's pretty safe to say that he's dead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.145.198 (talk) 00:50, 3 October 2017 (UTC) Just a quick update: Tom Petty is currently alive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.145.198 (talk) 01:25, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Close paraphrasing

"Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page" ...? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

@Ad Orientem: [7]? – Muboshgu (talk) 20:34, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Oh $%^&! I really need to pay closer attention. That tag was added in error. I must have clicked the box by mistake. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:38, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (15)

Date of death: October 2, 2017 70.60.98.70 (talk) 20:30, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Already done – Muboshgu (talk) 20:30, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

TMZ updated report with claim that Tom Petty has not technically died yet

http://www.tmz.com/2017/10/02/tom-petty-found-unconscious-full-cardiac-arrest/

"1:35 PM PT -- Sources tell us at 10:30 Monday morning a chaplain was called to Tom's hospital room. We're told the family has a do not resuscitate order on Tom. The singer is not expected to live throughout the day, but he's still clinging to life. A report that the LAPD confirmed the singer's death is inaccurate -- the L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. handled the emergency."

This is pretty sad... it looks like he's going to die anyway, but they're saying he's technically still alive. 98.7.34.119 (talk) 21:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

That source says "12:30 PM PT -- We're told after Petty got to the hospital he had no brain activity and a decision was made to pull life support." Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, but the later update at 1:35 PM PT claims that the earlier report was inaccurate. See also: https://twitter.com/TMZ/status/914953557614268416 98.7.34.119 (talk) 21:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
How does PT relate to UTC? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:03, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
@Martinevans123: It looks like Pacific Time Zone is 7 hours behind UTC. 98.7.34.119 (talk) 21:08, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Is there a conflicting reports tag? --The lorax (talk) 21:04, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

TMZ is a tabloid and not reliable. Reliable sources, which are cited within the article, confirm the death of Petty. livelikemusic talk! 21:07, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

@Livelikemusic: That's fair, though this tweet from the LAPD has added to the confusion: https://twitter.com/LAPDHQ/status/914956939443920897 98.7.34.119 (talk) 21:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
@Livelikemusic: Also want to add that CBS is walking back their claim: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lapd-clarifies-cannot-confirm-tom-petty-death/ 98.7.34.119 (talk) 21:14, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
This is why it should be rewritten that he was hospitalized and nothing more. --Jennica✿ / talk 21:15, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
TMZ was right here. They reported Petty was found in his home and rushed to the hospital. CBS erroneously reported his death, not TMZ. TMZ's credibility depends on the type of story, but when it comes to celebrity health issues and legal issues, they tend to be accurate. Even a news organization as respected as CBS makes mistakes. Knope7 (talk) 02:52, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Sure, but an organization that gets a story wrong still keeps its reliable source status if it acknowledges and corrects its errors (as CBS did.) TMZ isn't known for doing that; when they get a story wrong it tends to just disappear rather than getting corrected. Bearcat (talk) 06:17, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (16)

Death October 02, 2017 192.158.48.162 (talk) 20:58, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Already done - FlightTime (open channel) 20:59, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Petty may not be dead.

CBS has tweeted that the LAPD does not confirm reports of Petty's death. What to do re: the article? PaulCHebert (talk) 21:14, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

CBS retracts death claim

CBS has officially retracted its death claim for Tom Petty, therefore we can no longer claim he is dead in the article — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 21:16, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I was about to point out the same, but kept getting edit-conflicted into oblivion. Bearcat (talk) 21:18, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

@Crumpled Fire: Can you stop citing TMZ? They are not reliable. Also, linking in an edit summary is not acceptable as "citing" information, per Wikipedia policy. livelikemusic talk! 21:21, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I never "cited" TMZ except to say that they had also retracted their report, which was secondary to my point that CBS had done so; adding the mention of TMZ was relevant because CBS' own report was at the very least partially based on TMZ's — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 21:28, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
CBS' initial confirmation came from LAPD, which they later admitted they got false confirmation on. TMZ should not be mentioned, period. Mentioning, regardless of source or in edit summary, is unacceptable and should be avoided at all cost. livelikemusic talk! 21:30, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Interesting development on this front, the LAPD now deny ever having confirmed this with CBS, which potentially doesn't speak well to CBS' journalistic integrity. — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 22:58, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (17)

add that he died Tonerjoe1997 (talk) 21:23, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 21:24, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Tonerjoe, the sources that were reporting his death have been retracting their reports. His death has not been confirmed as of right now. Bearcat (talk) 21:25, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

He has in fact died. Just released: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/tom-petty-dead-66-cardiac-arrest-report-article-1.3536756 --Figfires (talk) 22:14, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Question

Would anybody object if I put this under admin-only protection for a couple of hours to put a lid on the constant stream of reversions and unreversions until we've got a clearer picture of what the hell's going on? Bearcat (talk) 21:28, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

That and the talk page, I'm afraid. Within minutes of CBS' claims, there were multiple requests for change. This is an out of control situation that has to be controlled at this point. livelikemusic talk! 21:30, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
I think it should be done. --Jennica✿ / talk 21:32, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
I don't see any valid reason to admin-protect the talk page, but I'd have no objections to this being done to the article page. — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 21:33, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Fine by me. I think I'm going to duck out of this article and come back to it later. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:34, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Okay, thanks. I've done so, although I left the expiry time the same as the one on the semi. We can renew it if the problem is still in force after the current protection expires, but for now I didn't want to push it. As well, I've added a properly referenced statement to the introduction to the effect that the death reports have been retracted. I agree, however, that talk page protection should be reserved only for extreme situations of a type that this hasn't reached yet. Bearcat (talk) 21:36, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
    Seems good. I don't think we were wrong to update our own article at the time to say he'd died, with the weight of sources already reporting it as such, but now that it's back in doubt again, let's leave protection in until things have settled down.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that we were wrong to act at the time either — but this went into full-on farce the moment the LAPD retracted the initial statement. Bearcat (talk) 22:06, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Update: I think I misjudged a bit when deciding to leave the protection at the original expiry time. I measured the time of 22:50 against my time, when that's still five hours away, instead of UTC, when it's just 45 minutes away now. I think I'm going to have to bump it up a few more hours, however, because with death edit requests still happening I'm not confident that the situation has been resolved enough yet. Bearcat (talk) 22:06, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
I think it would not have hurt everyone to wait until they were absolutely and totally utterly sure, given that WP:NOTNEWS is policy. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:08, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (18)

Add death date and information on bio summary. Eel 52 (talk) 21:38, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

 Not done Pay attention. The death reports have been retracted, and the article even says so already. Bearcat (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (19)

tom petty died today, have some fucking respect and change it!!!! 70.184.106.118 (talk) 21:38, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 21:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
What part of THE DEATH REPORTS HAVE BEEN RETRACTED are you having difficulty understanding? At any rate, it is not disrespectful for Wikipedia to wait a bit before reporting such things — it's much more important in these situations for us to get it right than it is for us to get it quick, and what happened with the Tom Petty death reports getting issued and then retracted today is exactly the reason why that's true. Bearcat (talk) 21:43, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (20)

Death date 2 October 2017 125.239.187.155 (talk) 21:38, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 21:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
What part of THE DEATH REPORTS HAVE BEEN RETRACTED are you having difficulty understanding? Bearcat (talk) 21:43, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Most of it obviously. I have put a note at the top of the talk page, and an edit notice that you can now see above this edit window, to ram the point home. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:44, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
@Ritchie333: Maybe you can add it to the article view source page, too? That way, they'll see it before they click the edit request button. — Gestrid (talk) 21:48, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Can't hurt, I guess. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:51, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (21)

72.140.116.70 (talk) 21:56, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Tom Petty passed away in hospital October 2, 2017 following a heart attack at his home in Malibu, he was 66.

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 21:58, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Please pay attention 72.140.116.70. The death reports have been retracted. theinstantmatrix (talk) 22:00, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
72.140.116.70, with the best will in the world, if I stuck you in a room with a button that said "DO NOT PRESS" and a sign on the wall saying "DO NOT PRESS THE BUTTON", what would you do? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:15, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Uncited claims about first marriage

Someone irresponsibly removed the only cited dates the article contained for Petty's first marriage, which were the years 1974-1996. There currently are not cites for the claims of specific dates, representing a clear WP:BLP. I also don't understand the removal of his parents' names. Both the years and the parents' names were cited to the WP:RS source "Tom Petty: Music Producer, Guitarist, Songwriter, Singer (1950–2017) Biography.com (FYI / A&E Networks). --Tenebrae (talk) 21:58, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Looks like it happened accidentally during the back and forth edits regarding his death/non-death. I'll add them back in, I can't imagine that's controversial. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Much appreciated. Also, the "Edge of Seventeen" claim under Personal life needs "[citation needed]," which also got removed. Thanks, Floquenbeam! --Tenebrae (talk) 22:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Ugh. I'll try to do that too before I go, but this edit by UserAlaskaNativeRU actually removed a whole lot of stuff (which look to me like improvements) unrelated to the death/no-death frenzy; I'm fairly sure by accident. Because of the intervening edits (and the full protection) I can't just revert back. And I have run out of editing time today. Any admin want to take on the thankless task of re-adding the non-controversial stuff? Otherwise we'll have to wait for full protection to expire. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:17, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, I messed up the ping for User:AlaskanNativeRU the first time. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:18, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
I think most of it got restored aside from one sentence, which I've put back - the remainder is just template fiddling and minor copyedits. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:29, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

death 'not confirmed"

All-too-common idiocy to include this. It will be accurate and relevant for about an hour. As of Wikipedia were a news channel. Badiacrushed (talk) 22:13, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, start changing all the "was" back to "is" - let's not jump the gun.

Confirmation of death by Bob Dylan

According to the Guardian, it seems that Petty's former bandmate Bob Dylan has confirmed Petty's death to Rolling Stone: [8]. --79.242.203.134 (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

He was most likely reacting to the news stories, there still doesn't make it official. --Jennica✿ / talk 22:18, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Nothing about Dylan's comment in that article suggests that he has any more "insider" information about the matter than the media do. He's plainly reacting to the news story, rather than giving out information gleaned from having been there personally. Bearcat (talk) 22:21, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Exactly that.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
While not entirely sure how reliable, Petty's own daughter — through an unverified social media account — is stating her father is not dead, "yet." We all know how social media is around Wikipedia, and I'm not one who normally brings it up, but given how shaky details have become, I figured it'd be worth a slight mention in the least. livelikemusic talk! 23:10, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
The Guardian now say, "Tom Petty seriously ill in hospital after suspected heart attack, reports say and that "Initial claims of rock star’s death are retracted after LAPD apologizes for ‘inadvertently provided’ information that suggested he had passed away". --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 00:46, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


Reports of Death

Guys, it's more important that the information on Wikipedia be accurate than timely.
Wikipedia is not a newspaper! Please refrain from placing news of his death until it is verified.
Regards.
DTXBrian (talk) 19:36, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

"If in doubt, leave it out." Regular editors here should consider asking for admin page protection if things get too ridiculous in the coming hours. Ref (chew)(do) 19:39, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

It really saddens me for humanity how quick people are in a want to be the "first" to edit about someone's passing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbx118 (talk • contribs) 19:43, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I have semi-protected the article for three days. I can only see tabloid (emphasis mine) reports he is critically ill. If and when a broadsheet source reports he has actually died, we can update then. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:48, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
.... and that doesn't seem to have done the trick, I've now full protected for 3 hours. I will unprotect as soon as somebody produces a high-quality reliable source that meets WP:BLPSOURCES here. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:50, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Thanks to User:Ritchie333 - it's a shame that duly registered editors feel the need to join the herd of IPs in abusing the encyclopedia. Ref (chew)(do) 19:52, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, thanks to User:Ritchie333. This was reaching a point of absurdity. DTXBrian (talk) 19:53, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Thus far, no one is confirming Petty's death, aside from TMZ and those citing TMZ. Those not citing TMZ claim he has been taken off life support, however. livelikemusic talk! 19:54, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Why is it that people ONLY come to the talk page to discuss this when the page gets locked? C'mon, people, use talk pages. That's what this page is for. DTXBrian (talk) 20:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Because, OMG, a website I visit daily reports it online, so it must be true. /sarcasm. livelikemusic talk! 20:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Okay... now we're getting somewhere. [[9]]
CBS is a better source than TMZ. Still, I'm not sure I consider this a good enough source. Feels too "based on TMZ" for me. DTXBrian (talk) 20:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
The LAPD confirmed it for them. They are not just reporting on what TMZ said. Reach Out to the Truth 20:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Then CBS News is neglectful, and should have put that information in the article on the website, as it's nowhere to be found there. But yes, I see it now. DTXBrian (talk) 20:16, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Does it not seem peculiar that all three "sources" being cited on here are citing TMZ yet Wikipedia isn't citing TMZ as the main source? Is there a bias against the site that reports celebrity deaths with an extraordinary high rate of both accuracy and first to press? Why is CBS a better source than TMZ?Dobyblue (talk) 20:38, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
LAPD and TMZ have retracted, and CBS is now noting this. https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/914960436272992256 RichardMathews (talk) 21:11, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, LAPD tweeted 16 mins ago that they have no information on Tom Petty.Dobyblue (talk) 21:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
As to why TMZ is not a valid source for this site, they are a tabloid organization. Their revenue is based upon sensationalism. Yes, they get many things right, but they also get many things wrong. You should ask Miley Cyrus about this. Oh, wait, TMZ reported her dead in 2008. Anyway, CBS waited until the LAPD corroborated reports. Yes, they were still wrong, but they still sought corroboration before proceeding. DTXBrian (talk) 21:15, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

CBS and ABC are both reporting he has died. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-petty-legendary-rocker-is-dead-at-66/

Sign your post. DTXBrian (talk) 20:11, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
TMZ is reporting that reports the LAPD confirmed the death are "inaccurate" and Tom is still "clinging to life" but has a DNR.Dobyblue (talk) 21:07, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I Thought He Was Still Alive Still Darthpool2016 (talk) 22:46, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

LA Times and AP now reporting Petty has died for real. MahuCG (talk) 04:13, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

BBC News has just reported his death.

CNN too. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 04:25, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

What a terrible surname to give to your kids, but look out how he turned out!

What a terible surname to give to your kids, but look how great he turned out. Tom's NOT SO PETTY after all. Terrible joke. Sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.167.39.149 (talk) 03:43, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Released 60 million albums? Now that's a hard working musician!

"Petty and his collaborators have released 60 million albums."

Holy shit, that guy must write all day.

Sales in the U.S.

Are there any U.S.-Sales about Tom Petty´s records? Maybe some newer ones since the start of the Nielsen Soundscan era.

Roger McGuinn

Greater detail re: TP's musical relationship to Roger McGuinn would seem to be in order. Alas, I'm not the guy to do it. The tribute "Feel a Whole Lot Better," the joint recording "King of the Hill," and TP's general stylistic homage to RM strike me as topics worthy of addition.

Work with Johnny Cash

I am concerned we are missing an important part Petty played in the resurgence of Johnny Cash's carrer on American Recordings. Also, the new Anthology - Through the Years is not mentioned. -- DanMcScience

American Girl

As a student at the University of Flordia, I have heard many rumors circling around the song "American Girl". Can anyone confirm that this song is about a young woman who jumped off a balcony at Beaty Towers (a dormatory at the Univeristy of Florida in Gainesville)? Tom makes a reference to "441" which is the highway that runs past these buildings, but from my observations, it doesnt look like Beaty Towers has any balconies...

  • Reply - I have removed the "trivia" section because the above statement is not true. Petty, in at least one interview has explained what the song is about, and is not related to any of the above info. Also, the fact his daughter likes Smashing Pumpkins has no relavance to this page and just serves as clutter. -- Mudcrutch

1981 Tour

The Split Enz radio documentary Enzology contains a bit of information about touring with Tom Petty during 1981, & contains quotes from band members about some of the difficulties that came from touring with Petty.

  • The entire Enz information blurb seems completely unecessary and argumentative. It seems some Enz fan just added it as petty (no pun intended) bickering. I am considering deleting those lines soon unless anybody can give me some solid reasoning as to why to keep it. Simply stating TPATH/Split Enz toured in '81 seems to be enough. -- Mudcrutch
  • No, I just added what was quoted in the radio documentary Enzology pretty much word for word. Personally I like Tom Petty's music, but this was information I obtained that can be backed up by listening to the program (episode 7 I believe had this information). If you want to edit it please feel free. Yes I'm an Enz fan but I'm not trying to cause an argument or even be "petty"... what reason would I have to do that anyway? I just felt it was relevant information coming from an official radio program, but if you disagree then get rid of it. - Dizrythmia
  • I understand your point, but it looks like somebody else took it off... -- Mudcrutch

Article needs cleanup

This article is mainly a list of affiliations, appearances, and releases. Such information belongs in list format if at all, as in a list of recordings. The text (I'm referring to his career) should concentrate on summarizing Petty's significance: what kind of contributions he has made. It should be much, much shorter and focussed. Zaslav (talk) 07:06, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

REQUEST: Remove "death" from 1991-present paragraph

Could an admin please remove "death" from the last paragraph in the 1991-present section? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 22:37, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Admin Request: Change "was" to "is" in lead paragraph, second sentence

Can an admin please change those few missed instances of "was" to "is" in the lede intro? And perhaps, if you deem it appropriate, separate the bit at the end of the lede about reports of his death into a third intro paragraph for easier visibility? — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 22:51, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Change: Heart attack happened Sunday night, Oct. 1, not Oct. 2

Most reports indicate he was found unresponsive 10:45 p.m. on Sunday night. A minor detail that will be resolved/made unnecessary as the day goes on, I'm sure. ScottFromWyoming (talk) 22:50, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Source? Especially for the claim that he had a heart attack, I haven't seen that anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:182:CC03:5799:BC7C:446F:8DD3:EDA (talk) 23:03, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I'll grant that cardiac arrest and heart attack aren't strictly quite the same thing in a medical sense (a heart attack being one of a few different types of cardiac arrest rather than the only kind), but they're used interchangeably in common speech. So as long as the article body doesn't muddle the terms beyond what can be sourced, it's not worth quibbling over which term somebody uses on the talk page. Bearcat (talk) 23:10, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 October 2017 (22)

Pettty was found unconscious following the cardiac arrest on October 1, NOT October 2. The public statements regarding his condition began to circulate on October 2. Nightscream (talk) 23:07, 2 October 2017 (UTC) Nightscream (talk) 23:07, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 23:10, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Done. The existing CBS "LAPD clarifies it cannot confirm Tom Petty's death" reference does confirm that he was found on Sunday night. Bearcat (talk) 23:13, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Section suggestion

Would it not be an idea to put this under a 'Reports of death' subheading, until it is confirmed either way? G-13114 (talk) 22:28, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Seems kind of pointless. He's in critical condition and on a DNR, it's unlikely he'll live through the night anyway. 208.102.4.214 (talk) 22:30, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Thank you, Doctor 208.102.4.214, for your diagnosis. Ref (chew)(do) 22:35, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
It's certainly possible (maybe even probable) that he'll be dead soon, but it wouldn't be the weirdest thing that had ever happened (or even the weirdest thing that's happened in 2017) if he somehow survived and recovered — and even if he does die, it could be several days still (Carrie Fisher hung on for four full days, for example). So unless you're a doctor who's personally examined him within the past few hours, let's wait until there's confirmation rather than speculating. Bearcat (talk) 22:43, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
I'm not editing the article, so I don't see that it makes any kind of difference. 208.102.4.214 (talk) 22:56, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Talk pages aren't meant for discussion of our personal opinions or amateur medical diagnoses of the article subject, either. Bearcat (talk) 23:00, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
G-13114 asked whether it would make sense to add a subheading for a developing story that would become irrelevant one way or the other as the story broke, and I answered it wouldn't. It would take a Wikipedia bureacrat to read that to mean that I was trying to offer a prognosis. 208.102.4.214 (talk) 23:17, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Nothing shall be added until it is confirmed reliably. The article mentions his condition as unknown - that is where it should stay, as I certainly don't know, you don't know, and my handy crystal ball is in for maintenance this week. - Floydian τ ¢ 23:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Living Confirmation

Though already noted, Tom Petty's daughter confirms her father is still alive, but stated he is "yet" to die. Source here -> [10]. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:25, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

See also....

Schroedinger's cat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.88.44 (talk) 00:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Well played! Bearcat (talk) 00:20, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 3 October 2017 (2)

173.89.76.136 (talk) 00:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Why would we do this? Bearcat (talk) 00:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 3 October 2017 (1)


Sources say he is currently terminally ill and not dead.

What sources? Adam9007 (talk) 00:37, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
And even if sources were provided, what change would need to be made to the article as a result of them? Bearcat (talk) 00:44, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
This is not an edit request, it's a question. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Current Event Template added: 2017-10-02

Added the Current Event template to the article - please remove once life/death status has been confirmed by reliable sources. - Davodd (talk) 23:38, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

@Davodd:@Ritchie333: Looks like he has been taken off of life support (as earlier reports said), but that he is still hanging on, though not expected to survive[11]. We will just have to wait and see if he pulls through. Good call reverted the past tense etc though as he is still alive - albeit (reportedly) barely --TheSandDoctor (talk) 01:18, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
According to the topic right above this one (courtesy TDKR Chicago 101), his daughter has confirmed on Instagram that he isn't dead. — Gestrid (talk) 01:24, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 3 October 2017 (3)

In the section 'Personal Life', the second sentence is missing a citation. I would like to change:

Benyo disclosed to Stevie Nicks that she met Petty at "the age of seventeen." Nicks misheard Benyo, leading to Nicks' song "Edge of Seventeen".[citation needed]

to

Benyo disclosed to Stevie Nicks that she met Petty at "the age of seventeen." Nicks misheard Benyo, leading to Nicks' song "Edge of Seventeen".[1]

– jfsamper (talk•contrib•email) 01:12, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Old Trivia Questions". Retrieved 2 October 2017. She was telling me about Tom, about when she met him, and she has an incredible Southern accent ... and she said that she met him at the age of seventeen, but I thought she said 'edge,' and she said 'no ... age' and I said, 'Jane, forget it, it's got to be "edge." The "Edge of Seventeen" is perfect. I'm gonna write a song, ok? And I'm gonna give you credit.' She didn't believe me, you know? She couldn't believe it when it came out on the album.

False claims of death on Wikipedia

I am wondering if this might be a good time for senior Wikipedia editors and admins to comment on what exactly happened today. Alternatively, we could have some kind of round table public discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.145.198 (talk) 01:38, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

There's not much for us to comment about. This didn't start out as our error; we just got caught in a crosscurrent of conflicting media reports, and once administrators showed up the Wikipedia process ended up working exactly the way it's supposed to: a lid got thrown on the editwarring, and the article got repaired. If there's anybody who needs to smack themselves right now for all of this, it's CBS and the LAPD, not Wikipedia. Bearcat (talk) 01:46, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Well said. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:59, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 3 October 2017 (4)

Tom Petty died today. 192.232.166.215 (talk) 02:32, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

  •  Not done SMH! Bearcat (talk) 02:39, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
@Bearcat: If it's helpful, here's an article from Billboard about the confusion. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:40, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I know. We all know. The point isn't that I was surprised by the claim; it's that both the article and the responses to the prior edit requests on this talk page, and the big "notice to all those wanting to add that Tom Petty has died" editnotice at the top of the edit window, already address the fact that he isn't dead yet — so the only way a person could still be making this request now is if they're not paying attention to their own surroundings. Bearcat (talk) 02:45, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
@Bearcat: No, I know. I was offering more evidence if you wanted to just copy-paste something in response to these edits. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:49, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Ah, okay, sorry for misunderstanding. Bearcat (talk) 02:53, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 3 October 2017

108.35.85.165 (talk) 04:29, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Just in the last few minutes, CNN Tonight with Don Lemon has joined the reports from BBC, CBS and ABC confirming that Petty has died. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 04:32, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

[12]
 Done Edit appears to have been made. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 04:33, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Format the damn lead properly

Administrators dropping the ball in one of the most viewed articles of the day showing off poor birth-death date formatting in the lead. 97.88.205.239 (talk) 04:37, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. Even with the death unconfirmed, why was the BIRTH date altered? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:14d:8101:cfb0:b5b4:a082:acf1:2363 (talk) 04:39, 3 October 2017‎

Protected edit request on 3 October 2017

It has been confirmed by the manager that Petty died. http://www.koco.com/article/tom-pettys-death-officially-confirmed-by-longtime-manager/12769812 Seblake513 (talk) 04:27, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:38, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 3 October 2017

According to the New York Times and CNN, Tom Petty has died. KENGRIFFEY24 (talk) 04:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:40, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 3 October 2017

Ethandeit (talk) 04:11, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Tom Petty has now officially died. https://twitter.com/latimes?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

It was also reported by New York Times. Yoshiman6464 ♫🥚 04:14, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Lede: Full dates of birth and death missing

In this version of the article. -Mardus /talk 04:34, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

It's clear that he died either October 1 or 2, so just "– October 2017" should be fine. No clue why the birth date was altered. 93 04:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Template

Shouldn't the {{refimprove}} tag be {{BLP sources}}? Adam9007 (talk) 00:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

It should be. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:09, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I don't think it matters anymore. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:42, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Update years active

Still says his career is active. Edit to 1970-2017. Pierce97x (talk) 04:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC) Pierce97x (talk) 04:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

 Done Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:45, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

His passing is confirmed on his official website

http://www.tompetty.com/news/tom-petty-1950-2017-1758086

Xeon06 (talk) 04:25, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Secondary source

More secondary sources, including this one, are confirming his death -- for real this time.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 04:29, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Petty's family has released a statement on his death

His family has just released a statement on social media confirming his death. He died Monday night (October 2), a couple weeks shy of his 67th birthday. https://twitter.com/passantino/status/915063690629496832 Canuck89 (have words with me) 04:20, October 3, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:48, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

He passed

Confirmed by his manager.

Previous comment unsigned. Mine:
Source at CNN. -Mardus /talk 04:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:48, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Petty has died (BBC News)

BBC now running story on Tom Petty's death:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41475013

LoveEverybodyUnconditionally (talk) 04:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)LoveEverybodyUnconditionally 05.14am GMT

Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:49, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Can we fix the time of death?

He died at 11:30pm in California? That's almost 2 hours from now.

Can we make it local time so that makes sense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kruzelc77 (talk • contribs) 04:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I listed the time reported in the first article that I found on the web. Obviously this whole day has been a comedy of errors, but that newspaper needed to copyedit to accommodate for Eastern vs Pacific time. I corrected the time as soon as I saw the source that actually directly quoted the family statement. Bearcat (talk) 04:51, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Fix time of death

The time of death given in the article is wrong. He died in the Pacific Time Zone in California. His actual time of death should be 8:40 PM, per his manager and family. https://twitter.com/passantino/status/915063690629496832 Canuck89 (have words with me) 04:45, October 3, 2017 (UTC)

Was already fixed by the time you posted this, but thanks. Bearcat (talk) 04:51, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
He's not dead.... He's just pretending! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C0:8101:B40:7149:2D6B:5C64:3B8 (talk) 04:56, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Request to add an additional citation, confirming time of passing

I need an admin to grant permission to add an additional citable reference to the end of this line: "Petty suffered cardiac arrest early in the morning of October 2, 2017 and died at 8:40 p.m. at a hospital in Santa Monica, California."

The Cite web I wish to add is this article from the LA Times, less than an hour ago, which fixes the time of passing at 8:40 PM Pacific, while the existing citation does not.
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-tom-petty-20171002-story.html

Thank you for your assistance.
Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 04:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

 Done Thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 05:07, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


Would like to add to this request the link to the official statement by the family of Tom Petty, which was released on his official Twitter account. [13] --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:00, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
  • I'll add the LA Times link. We don't source Wikipedia content to Twitter tweets, but the Spin source that's already in the article does include a screenshot of the family statement. Bearcat (talk) 05:09, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
The LA Times is already cited there. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 05:12, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


I noticed that afterward, and have replaced the place I added it with the refname you gave it so that they're both calling the same footnote. Bearcat (talk) 05:16, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Your requested Twitter link, TheSandDoctor, has already been submitted in the previous Talk section, Tom Petty#Fix info about Cardiac Event
Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 05:14, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
@DeNoel: Oops, my bad. Sorry for the duplicate request. I have struck out my requested addition to the above request. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:33, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Spin Magazine Citing Death

Spin Magazine has a statement from the family, not only confirming his death, but also confirming that he suffered cardiac arrest on the morning of October 2, not October 1, which goes against other reports citing that he suffered the arrest on October 1. livelikemusic talk! 04:32, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

It looks like it's been fixed. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 05:40, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Fully-Protected Edit Request (non-death related)

Please add mention of how the Rolling Stones were a musical inspiration to Tom Petty/inspired him in the Early life section (around the 2006 interview bit). [14][15][16] --TheSandDoctor (talk) 04:59, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

The request must be of the form "please change X to Y". --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 05:13, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Not done: not done per Malcolmxl5 SparklingPessimist Scream at me! 05:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Updated request SparklingPessimist --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:18, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Be specific. What words would you like to be added to the article? --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 05:20, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
@Malcolmxl5: Sorry for the confusion. Here is my suggested edit to include below mention of the 2006 interview. If it is still unclear, I have added what I mean to my sandbox as well. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
In an interview with the CBC in 2014, Petty stated that the Rolling Stones were "my punk music".[1] Petty credited the group with inspiring him by demonstrating that himself and musicians like him could make it in rock and roll.[1]
 Done Perfect, thank you. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 05:36, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
@Malcolmxl5: You're welcome. Sorry for the confusion, have never had to make a protected edit request before that I can recall. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:56, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ a b "Tom Petty: Rolling Stones Were 'My Punk Music'". Rolling Stone. Retrieved 2017-10-03.

Fully-Protected Edit request edit notice

Please remove notice (when editing) about Tom Petty not being dead as it has been added to the article and he is now confirmed as deceased. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

  •  Done Thanks for the catch; that probably would have gotten overlooked entirely otherwise since it required deleting a separate standalone page. Bearcat (talk) 05:24, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
You're welcome! Just wondering, how do those notices work anyways Bearcat? --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
The're a separate page that can be created as a template in order to display on top of the editable version of a page to communicate things like "he's not dead, stop asking us to say he is" or "don't add redlinked entries to this list". I don't know all the technical details, though. Bearcat (talk) 05:37, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the answer Bearcat. I think it was Ritchie333 who added the notice. I am just surprised as when I viewed the page source, I don't see a template being transcoded etc. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 06:05, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
It's not transcluded directly in the visible edit window. If you wanted to create one, you would go through the "page notice" link that's next to the "Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted..." line in the page headers. Bearcat (talk) 06:09, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Isn't on this article anymore but found them through The Rolling Stones. Thank you Bearcat! --TheSandDoctor (talk) 06:18, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2017

Please change the first line in the article. Should'nt it be "Thomas Earl "Tom" Petty or perhaps "also known as Tom Petty". I don't what the WIkipedia-standard in this question is.194.69.14.78 (talk) 06:33, 3 October 2017 (UTC) 194.69.14.78 (talk) 06:33, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

From my experience dealing with other musician's articles (i.e. Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, and [[[Paul McCartney]], this does not seem to be a thing added to articles and, in this case, is reflected within the lead. I would mark this as answered, however, want to give others an opportunity to chime in and either correct me if need be. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 06:41, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Our standard is that if the short form name just a normal and widely recognized hypocorism of one of the person's given names, such as Tom for Thomas or Jim for James or Bill for William, then we don't include it as a separate piece of standalone information. If he'd been known as "Buzz Petty", then we would certainly say Thomas Earl "Buzz" Petty, and we would add "Tom" if his names were really "Roger Earl", so Tom was a nickname that came from somewhere completely divorced from any part of his real name — but we don't add "Tom" if the given names already include "Thomas". Bearcat (talk) 06:45, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 Not done per Bearcat. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 06:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification Bearcat. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 06:48, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Fix info about Cardiac Event

On the page, it says that he suffered cardiac arrest on October 1st but in the official statement it states that it happened in the early hours of the morning (on October 2nd). Can this be fixed? source: https://twitter.com/tompetty/status/915072929120972801 Littlemisssunshine22 (talk) 04:52, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

It looks like it's been fixed. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 05:16, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
We don't source Wikipedia content directly to Twitter tweets; we can source it to media coverage about the tweet, but not to the tweet itself. And this has already been corrected. Bearcat (talk) 05:17, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Articles referencing the 911 call that was released by the LAPD specify it came in "around 10:45 pm" Sunday night. Perhaps the official statement reflects a time zone difference, or the person writing it received the phone call in the early hours. Source: http://www.tmz.com/2017/10/02/tom-petty-911-call-breathing-cpr-life-support/ ScottFromWyoming (talk) 05:20, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
We can't and don't source Wikipedia content to TMZ either. Bearcat (talk) 05:35, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
typical suicide scenario: dead man is found, police is called. Police issues a notice. Family is angry and does not want to damage the reputation and protested. Police recalls the notice. Daughter writes furiously on the Internet. A new story is created... If he had come to the hospital for a heart attack, the police would not have heard of the story at all. And if he had struggled with death in the intensive care unit, the daughter would have had other things to do than to write at Twitter. --85.212.171.31 (talk) 10:18, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Just to be clear, there are lots of situations besides suicide where a police officer would come along with the EMS team. Bearcat (talk) 14:11, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Date of Death Inconsistency

In the lead paragraph it says "Thomas Earl Petty(October 20, 1950 – October 3, 2017)".

In both the side bar and the "Death" sub-section it says he died on October 2, 2017. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.23.190.27 (talk) 11:08, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

The lede has been corrected. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 11:11, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
There have been a bunch of people this morning flipping the death date to October 3, presumably because they were in bed before the news broke that his death had finally been confirmed and thus they didn't hear about it until this morning. But yes, the death time was in the evening of October 2, not the morning of October 3 — it wasn't even midnight yet in my time zone, let alone his. Bearcat (talk) 14:23, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Was 8:40pm in his timezone [17]. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 16:10, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2017

The band he was in needs to say 1976-2017 also with his wife 2001-2017 Zray441 (talk) 14:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

@Zray441: Where are you suggesting this change? The inbox on the side? --TheSandDoctor (talk) 16:08, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SparklingPessimist Scream at me! 19:00, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Kudos

I'd like to compliment the editor(s) who remembered to add archive links to newly installed citations. It's vitally important, and many editors are not yet in the habit of doing so. Kudos to you! --Tenebrae (talk) 20:53, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Associated acts section

This section (like many on the project) seems excessive, can an knowledgeable editor please review the accuracy of the entries. - FlightTime (open channel) 16:22, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Let's discuss each entry in the article as of this writing. Note that the instructions at Template:Infobox musical artist#associated_acts tells us to list the groups that Petty was a member of, and artists that Petty has "collaborated on multiple occasions, or on an album, or toured with as a single collaboration act playing together." This means that one shared song is not enough. Binksternet (talk) 16:50, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
@Binksternet: Thank you, ( I was thinking of pinging you from the get-go :P ) Well, obviously anyone in Traveling Wilburys, Nicks association is well known/documented. Bands that share a show shouldn't be considered for this listing. Seems the remaining should be removed unless well sourced (IMO). Thank you again Binksternet. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:00, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
We could list other associated acts in the article like we will be doing for additional genres. --FigfiresSend me a message! 17:06, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
I would remove Orbison and Harrison from the infobox because they are listed within the Traveling Wilburys, and they did not collaborate with Petty very much outside of that group. Binksternet (talk) 17:19, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Gave it a quick cut, agreed that individuals of the Wilburys need not be listed as that was the base of the professtional association. - FlightTime Public (open channel) 17:30, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Too many genres?

Am I the only the one who thinks there are too many of the same genres in his infobox? I didn't want to remove them but some of them seem redundant. --Jennica✿ / talk 09:09, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

You have to understand that each genre has a different cultural origin/time period and may or may not still be around. Each genre is a different type of music and thus needs to be in the infobox. --Figfires (talk) 09:32, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
No, I disagree - it's way too bloated. Just pick two or three.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:28, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I hate to say this, but... the infobox is supposed to summarize the article, so all these genres need to be mentioned somewhere? And they all need sources to support them. I think most readers would expect to see some kind of "rock" here, and possibly also in the opening sentence. Perhaps this would be enough for now, and then other genres could be the subject of more lengthy discussion? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:03, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I am undoing your removal and will make a drop down list for the other genres. Tom Petty has been mentioned as falling under these genres on other pages which have sources. Infoboxes typically arent sourced.--Figfires (talk) 17:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I didn't remove anything. But I think they need to be mentioned in this article, and with sources. Your'e right about not needing sources in the infobox. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:25, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Okay... I found multiple articles confirming the genres as they were stated. I will be reinstating them to the infobox (someone deleted my earlier edit) and will add them to the article. I feel the issue of too many genres causing the bloated info box is solved easily by having a drop down list. --Figfires (talk) 21:52, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
No objection. Sounds like a useful addition. He was certainly a multi-genre artist. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Looks like we need a section or possibly an entire page that lays out the songs of Tom Petty in chronological order and shows the genres. I can work on that, but it will take a ton of time considering there are 80+ songs. There may be additional genres that apply to Tom Petty that arent mentioned in the infobox. Will have to see. I will post once I get more done. --Figfires (talk) 22:12, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I started work Songs written by Tom Petty, but don't find it appropriate to add it to the main article until more has been completed. These songs have genres that are sourced (thus why they are on Tom Petty's page). I will try and contribute more to it tomorrow. --Figfires (talk) 00:09, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

the "More Genres" thing is even uglier. --Jennica✿ / talk 00:32, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

This has been done in many infoboxes where there are many different items to list (Ex: Queen Elizabeth II). All of the genres listed have sources on pages for the specific songs (list of songs being added to discography with genres). Since each genre is a different type of music, it should be be listed as such. --Figfires (talk) 00:46, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
I don't know about everybody else but I think it would look better with all of the, listed and maybe remove the redundant genres, "Rock" vs "Rock & roll" [choose one], and country rock/southern rock [choose one]. --Jennica✿ / talk 02:26, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

The genre of an artist comes from reliable sources talking about the artist. The genre of a song comes from reliable sources talking about the song. The genre of an album comes from reliable sources talking about the album. These three things are not the same as each other – the genre of an album is not necessarily the genre of the artist. An example I have given before is Barbra Streisand who is never described as the classical singer Streisand, even though she released the album Classical Barbra and it went Gold. An artist's genre is definitely not just a collection of song genres or album genres. So let's not stray into original research territory and try to define the artist's genre by using a synthesis of song genres. If a reliable source takes care of that connection for us, then it's perfectly fine to go there.

The instructions at Template:Infobox_musical_artist#genre specifically say that genres should aim for generality, and there should not usually be more than four of them in the infobox. I'm all for telling the reader about the many different song genres that Tom Petty has been known for but the infobox is not the place for that. Instead, the many and varied genres should be described in prose in the article body, and as always they should summarize what is said by reliable sources. Binksternet (talk) 03:20, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

If that's the case then... should we add a section just about genres period and also add a link in the infobox that redirects you to that section? Many sources describe Tom Petty as one who crosses genres or as a rock cameleon. The genres are all important as they have distinct variations between them as well as when they were active. --Figfires (talk) 03:34, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
  • I fully agree with the OP and Binkersnet. Of particular notice to me is Heartland rock, country rock, and southern rock, the articles for which muddy the line between each to the point of ambiguity. All that seems to separate Heartland from southern is the location in the US and the lyrical themes. Both seem to be encompassed by country rock, and all of the previous - in addition to roots rock - seem to fall under the banner of Folk rock or American rock (though obviously not all roots/country rock is American rock; Petty isn't Kid Rock after all). Rock and roll would be an influence to Petty, but is more-often attributed to artists such as Elvis, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Louis, Little Richard, etc... hard hitting (usually) twelve-bar blues. I think Heartland rock is the best moniker, placing alongside fellow blue-collar rockers John Cougar, The Boss, CCR, The Band, Van Morrison, etc.
The genres and styles attributed to Petty, wide and various, are best dealt with in a "Styles and influences" section (ala System of a Down, another band that is labelled as everything under the sun), or a "Musical style" section (ala The Beatles). The infobox would then summarize this as rock, or folk rock, or some other genre or two agreed upon here. - Floydian τ ¢ 03:41, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Should we have a link that directs you to this new section in the infobox? Like a see more below kind of deal. The section could then talk about all the various genres attributed to Tom Petty throughout the years (ones with sources). There are at least 4-6 genres that can be discussed in the article. We should add the genres that were in infobox originally in this new section. The big differences between some of these genres are when, where, and why they formed. The circumstances as to why a genre formed is what separates it from the others. --FigfiresSend me a message! 03:55, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
No, per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE which says that the infobox should not carry a wikilink to another part of the same article. The reason is that the table of contents already serves that purpose. Binksternet (talk) 04:22, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Okay, now that we have that issue settled, we should discuss what genres we want to include in the actual article. Here are the ones that were originally in the infobox:

Many sources have Tom Petty's genres as the above. --FigfiresSend me a message! 17:10, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

It would be remiss of us to diminish Petty's gigantic presence in mainstream rock. Whatever other genres are discussed, the biography should not diminish Petty's straightforward rock output. Binksternet (talk) 17:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Indeed. I am amazed that rock was not there originally, and that it currently appears only once in this entire article (only in the infobox). And I'm sorry User:Jennica, but I just don't agree that rock and rock and roll are really "redundant". Martinevans123 (talk) 17:51, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Which ones should we include in the article and which should we leave out? Quite a few of them were heavily influenced by Tom Petty. Obviously we should also discuss Tom Petty's influence on mainstream rock as well. At most, we could have all 7 of those genres in the new section. I just want to see which ones that you feel are worthy of being discussed in the article before attempting to add them in. --FigfiresSend me a message! 22:08, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
If there are sources in support of any of those listed, I see no problem with including them all. We need to start from sources, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:21, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
If you search Tom Petty genres, many items pop up (news articles, biographies, etc..). Even google displays all the genres that were listed above. In addition, some of the articles for the songs of Tom Petty contain sources for genres. Those could be explored some. --FigfiresSend me a message! 22:26, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Bass

I wanted to add bass guitar to Mr. Petty's list of instruments on his infobox, but it said a discussion was needed first before adding anything to that. Since he was the bassist of Mudcrutch, I feel like this would be a necessary addition.

He is one of my all-time favorites, and I am sad that he is no longer with us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Badbadpatman (talk • contribs) 03:32, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

From the documentation of the instrument parameter of Template:Infobox musical artist: "Instruments listed in the infobox should be limited to only those that the artist is primarily known for using. The instruments infobox parameter is not intended as a WP:COATRACK for every instrument the subject has ever used." Based on this I'd say no, because Petty wasn't primarily known for playing bass guitar. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 12:08, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Tom Petty's radio career

It would be nice to see something on the Wiki page about Tom Petty's very successful "Buried Treasures" radio show on Sirius and other broadcasts.

He has reached so many through his radio show. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.90.146.67 (talk) 15:35, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

So go ahead and add it. -- 184.189.217.210 (talk) 08:33, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
In the "1991–2017" section, there's one sentence about the "Buried Treasures" show and one sentence about the Tom Petty Radio station. What else would you like to see in the article, and what reliable sources could we use as references? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 12:47, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

And this is why...

...mainstream news and Wikipedia are crap. Tons of people now think it's absolutely confirmed that he died because CBS couldn't wait to get the unconfirmed news out and Wikipedia editors couldn't wait to add his alleged death to the article. 69.34.48.242 (talk) 02:40, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Okay, but this isn't the place to complain about it. This page is for improving the article. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I am improving things -- attempting to -- by raising awareness about this idiotic "We gotta be the first to report this event!"/"I gotta be the first to add this edit!" mentality. 69.34.48.242 (talk) 02:49, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Oh, don't get me wrong: I agree with you about that mentality being annoying — as I've often said, including elsewhere on this very page and back in January when Rob Stewart's death was still up in the air for several days because his body hadn't been found yet, it's more important for us to get it right than it is for us to get it quick. But the problem is that it's not established Wikipedia editors who do this — it's anonymous IPs who often have no prior history of editing Wikipedia at all, and think they're helping. The established editors already know why it's not helpful. But the anons aren't people you can reach by lecturing the regulars — the only solution to that problem is moving to the "logged-in editors only" model, but there's never been a consensus for that...and it would also have prevented you from commenting. Bearcat (talk) 05:59, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
No, you are not improving anything, you're trolling and demonstrating what a stupid and intellectually dishonest person you are. -- 184.189.217.210 (talk) 08:27, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
This comment is allowed to stay? For ELEVEN days? What happened to "no personal attacks?" 69.34.55.170 (talk) 04:38, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia carries exactly no blame in any of this. It's not our job to be investigative journalists who independently reverify whether any given news story is right or wrong; CBS and the LAPD fucked up and that's on them, the end. Bearcat (talk) 02:45, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, it actually does carry a lot of blame. Many people undoubtedly still believe he's dead because of Wikipedia. 69.34.48.242 (talk) 02:49, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Er, no. People who believe he's dead are doing so because of the conflicting media reports that were flying back and forth this afternoon, not because of us. Our job begins and ends at reflecting what reliable source media coverage says, not independently reinvestigating it ourselves — so if the media and the police screw up, it's not our job to take the blame. It wasn't our job to know any different than what the media were reporting, or to correct it until they did. Bearcat (talk) 02:53, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
  • yawn* Are you done with your tirade yet? It is not any Wikipedia editor's "fault"—the source of his death claim was TMZ, not Wikipedia. Wikipedia is only so good/informative/useful as the sources its editors have to employ (combined with the talents and wordsmithing of the editors themselves). The media erroneously reporter; Wiki editors followed, and they also promptly followed when it was retracted. You cannot, as the old adage goes, "shoot the messenger" here. --Drown Soda (talk) 04:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
So, it's a form of "I was only doing my job!" Lame. 69.34.55.170 (talk) 04:46, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
Oh, go ahead and enlighten us poor cretins about what the hell Wikipedia was ever supposed to do any differently than it did. Bearcat (talk) 17:16, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, it actually does carry a lot of blame. -- No, you stupid pathetic troll, it doesn't. Many people undoubtedly still believe he's dead because of Wikipedia. -- cause does not imply blame, you cretin. -- 184.189.217.210 (talk) 08:30, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
IP, all that complaining for not. Petty did in fact pass away on October 2, 2017. GoodDay (talk) 09:27, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
  • sigh* Oh, so since he died some time AFTER he was falsely reported as having died, then it's perfectly a-okay to allow this sort of thing to happen on Wikipedia? 69.34.55.170 (talk) 04:46, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

I think people need to get accustomed to the fact that this sort of thing happens occasionally. Sometimes people tell the media things that are not correct, usually unintentionally, but either way it ends up in the media and has to be corrected. In the race to be first with news, it is inevitable that once in awhile some media outlet will report something when in retrospect, they should have waited to obtain further confirmation. Then it ends up in Wikipedia and has to be corrected. This is nothing new. Congresswoman Giffords was briefly "dead" on the day she was shot, both on the New York Times web site (and elsewhere) and then, briefly, on Wikipedia. James Brady was also "dead" for an hour or two on the day he was shot (I heard it on the car radio myself) and probably the only reason Wikipedia didn't pick it up was that Wikipedia did not exist then. And, although it is slightly different, I recall on the day of the Newtown CT shooting, listening to the radio and hearing all kinds of "facts" about the shooting that turned out to be incorrect and were corrected within a few hours. It happens. Neutron (talk) 17:46, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

"It happens" is a poor excuse for [then] false material being added to a website that prides itself on being encyclopedic. Perhaps Wikipedia needs to come up with a new system regarding matters of this sort where the material is flagged as needing to be officially confirmed by primary sources (e.g. Petty's family or, say, legal representative) before it's made public. Honestly, can you imagine what could happen if Wikipedia posted material about someone that turned out to be a criminally defamatory lie? 69.34.55.170 (talk) 04:46, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a citizen journalism project. It is not our role to investigate whether an ordinarily reliable source got a story wrong or not — if other media outlets report that the story was wrong, then we update the article to reflect that, but it is not our responsibility to second-guess the initial reports ourselves. And not just because it's not our job, but because we don't even have the fact-checking resources to even try to do that job. Even had somebody from Wikipedia personally called the hospital to check whether he was really dead or not, the hospital certainly wouldn't have told us anything — we don't have the right to pry into people's medical privacy like that. Bearcat (talk) 17:22, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree with 69.34.55.170's sentiment, but to be honest they should try being an admin and seeing it from the other side. "Perhaps Wikipedia needs to come up with a new system regarding matters of this sort where the material is flagged as needing to be officially confirmed by primary sources (e.g. Petty's family or, say, legal representative) before it's made public." We had a system, it was called Pending changes level 2 and was repeatedly rejected by the community, and is now retired. "Honestly, can you imagine what could happen if Wikipedia posted material about someone that turned out to be a criminally defamatory lie?" I certainly can, and so can WMF Legal who really do deal with just that - again, we had a system called Office actions for that purpose that is now pretty much deprecated. I did what I could here, including fully protecting the page, but if another admin reverts you, you are screwed (ask Yngvadottir about reversing a bad block of Eric Corbett some time). At the end of the day, I am not the King of Wikipedia and cannot force my views by executive fiat, even when I think they're right and am proven right afterwards. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:43, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Which photo should be used? Pic 1 or Pic 2?

  • Pic 1
    Pic 1
  • Pic 2
    Pic 2

My vote is for pic 1 - it is slightly less recent, but it is far more descriptive of the subject - in Pic 2, it looks nothing like Petty, it looks like a zombie. There is no rule that the image must be the most recent - see George Harrison. In all senses, pic 1 is just a better picture. Thoughts? ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 17:59, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

I prefer pic 1. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 19:58, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
While infobox images of well known people are kept as current as image suitability allows, once the person is deceased, the image is usually changed to one of the subject in their "hay-day". - FlightTime (open channel) 01:31, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Obviously, I disagree. I think we should be clear on the criterion to judge a photo for the infobox.

I'd propose that crisp focus on the face of the subject is the most important criterion, and by that measure, Pic 2 is superior to Pic 1.

Other factors I would propose are how much of the subject's face is shown and whether the subject is looking at the viewer. Pic 2 shows the full face and has Tom looking directly at the viewer. Pic 1 is a 3/4th profile and has Tom looking away.

But if there are different criteria we should judge, I'm happy to listen and consider how to apply them to candidate photos.

Pic 2

Davidwbaker (talk) 17:35, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

  • With due respect, his face is very clearly not directly facing the camera in picture 2. Further, it looks like he is having a stroke. This article is not PR for Petty, but the picture should not be one where he looks uncharacteristically poorly. The picture should be a representation of how the subject looks- and I feel picture 1 is far more representative of how Petty actually looked.

If detail is more important, I wouldn't be against using

‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 18:29, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Manual of Style doesn't say anything about crisp focus on the face of the subject, or how much of the face is shown, or whether the subject is looking at the viewer. It does say Lead images should be natural and appropriate representations of the topic; they should not only illustrate the topic specifically, but also be the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works, and therefore what our readers will expect to see. Based on this I think it's more important to show Tom Petty playing the guitar than to show a closeup of his face, because that's what our readers will expect to see. I like pic 1 because Petty is smiling, but I think either image is acceptable. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 19:09, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the Manual of Style says "type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works." That is, specifically, what I mean when I say crisp focus on a subject's face. Pic 1 is blurry on the subject's face, and thus fails the high-quality test. Davidwbaker (talk) 19:51, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Pic 1 is high quality, and you can't just conclude that it fails a test that you decided to select out of a compound, subjective, flexible standard. It comes down to what better represents the subject, and that is NOT image 2. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 00:51, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
Look at the infobox pictures for Eric Clapton and Bob Dylan, for example. The subject isn't looking 'directly' into the camera in either. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 00:53, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
On the contrary, I'd like to set objective standards here. Can we both agree that "high-quality" is one of those standards? As for "better represents," are you saying that smiling is necessary? So, high-quality and smiling? Davidwbaker (talk) 03:31, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
Please help me identify the objective criteria you're using to assess potential infobox images. So far, it looks like "high-quality" and "better represents." If you don't have time to do this now, I can revert your change until you have time to discuss.Davidwbaker (talk) 20:26, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
I created this discussion to gauge consensus, and so far there are 2 in support of using the current picture, with you only opposing. I don't see anything objectively wrong with the current picture, and therefore it should remain. But for the record, there is nothing about smiling. Better represents means looks more like the individual. The other picture does not objectively resemble Petty, as far as I'm concerned. Don't take this personally, I just really think this current picture is better suited. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 20:40, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
One objective criteria that the current photo doesn't excel at is that it's blurry when viewed at its full resolution, especially on the face and hair. The criterion of "looks more like the individual" is rather subjective, but I can accept that.Davidwbaker (talk) 01:00, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Age at death

He died at the age 67 not 529. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Backpack1988 (talk • contribs) 01:33, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

drug overdose

In the Death section, I linked to the wiki acetylfentanyl article (wiki doesn't have one for despropional fentanyl). These are illegal drugs--NOT prescription pain meds. The article is definitely improved by clarifying these facts! MorbidAnatomy (talk) 19:33, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2018

Under cause of death it states heart attack due to accidental drug overdose, this is incorrect. While drugs were found in his system there were only trace amounts. Low enough to come to the conclusion that he was not intoxicated at time of death and far below the amount necessary to trigger a heart attack.

Saying his his heart attack was the result of a drug overdose is like saying an auto accident was alcohol related because the driver had a beer 2 days prior. 2600:387:3:805:0:0:0:55 (talk) 06:42, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Anon126 (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 07:39, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Actually it makes perfect sense if you know how Cause of Death and Manner of Death are entered on the death certificate.

See: https://netforum.avectra.com/public/temp/ClientImages/NAME/4bd6187f-d329-4948-84dd-3d6fe6b48f4d.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:403:C201:1CCC:8CE4:BF1C:B95D:C80B (talk) 19:39, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

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