Talk:Toyota Corolla (E210)

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Predecessor

We have the beginnings of an edit war. An anon-IP thinks the Toyota Avensis (T270) wagon is a DIRECT predecessor of the Corolla E210 - no reasons were given. I think it is not due to the Avensis being bigger and having larger engines (although there is some overlap in engine choices). As per WP:BRD, we revert back to the state of the article before the controversial changes were made and make a decision on the talk page before changing the article again. Comments?  Stepho  talk  21:48, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

MZEA12

How did Toyota come up with that chassis code? I’m still confused on how the new engine designations fit into the chassis code. It seems like it’s actually easier on platforms that use dual letter codes (XV, XA) but more confusing with the E chassis. Can someone clarify how the “Z” came in and what happened to “210” in the code and why it’s cutoff to “12” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:200:4400:2290:15C2:7141:BBE:DC22 (talk) 09:39, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I've written down some observation and guessing concerning model codes for Toyotas with the new engine codes at Talk:List of Toyota model codes#New format for engine codes. ⛐Boivie (talk) 10:27, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

The M and A are from the M20A engine. The second and third characters are normally the 2 letter chassis code (eg RAV4 XA chassis is MXAA54). The Corolla doesn't have 2 characters in its chassis code, so they just add a filler code. X would cause too many conflicts. So, Z is as good as any other letter.

I haven't totally figured out the numeric part yet. I think the second last digit of 210 matches the second last digit of 12 to form the generation code - or to think another way, they drop the 200 at the front. The last digit is then just a variant within the "1" generation. But this is just an educated guess. We'll get better when we have more generations to compare against each other.  Stepho  talk  10:41, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Brazil

Brazilian-made versions of the Corolla are the GLi, XEi and Altis Premium with a flexfuel version of the M20A-FKS engine, while the hybrid is available only as Altis and Altis Premium with the 2ZR-FXE also turned into flexfuel for the local market. The only bodystyle available is sedan, and all versions have a CVT, with a 10-speed sequential mode for the non-hybrids while the hybrids resort to the same e-CVT of other models equipped with the HSD system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.97.185.146 (talk) 04:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

GR Corolla

Reports confirm that a hot hatch version of the Corolla with the engine from the GR Yaris is coming soon.Eightsixofakina (talk) 17:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

References

Why are we using British English

How was it decided to use British English on these pages? I see someone is going back and changing older model pages to British English as well. My concern is that main pages for these automobile types are Sedan (automobile) and Station wagon while this page uses the terms Saloon and Estate. Globally it seems that sedan and station wagon are the more common term. The other question I have is, would a speaker of British English find the terms sedan and station wagon confusing? I firmly believe that American English speakers find the terms saloon and estate very confusing because they mean very different things. — RickyCourtney (talk) 19:33, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

I'd have to spend ages trawling through the history to find the exact date that it was changed but I'll give a typical situation instead. This article is about a Japanese car, and therefore neither British English or American Ebglish has a better claim than the other. At WP:ENGVAR we allow that in such situations somebody arbitrability decides which way it should go (usually early in the article's history and usually they just chose their own flavour of English). After a flavour of English has been settled on, it is considered bad manners to flip to the other flavour. Assume an article is written in British English - an American changes everything to American terms and spelling, followed a little later by a Brit changing them all to British, followed a little later by an American, and so on.

For this article specifically, neither flavour has a better claim but British English has been settled on. Just as American's think saloon is an unnatural term, Brits also think that sedan is an unnatural term - do we really carry cars around between 2 people? (See sedan chair.) We will never be able to make both side happy, so we just live with the difference. We also add links to sedan (automobile) or saloon (automobile) to help readers who haven't been outside their own country.

To argue that American English is better (or British English is better) is usually arguing from a "might is right" or WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT position. Although it is always allowed for the topic to brought up on talk pages. If a case can be made for swapping then it will happen - but it doesn't get changed just for personal preferences.  Stepho  talk  00:42, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm an experienced editor and I understand the logic behind WP:ENGVAR. I'm not making this argument because I'm an American, I am trying to find a way to write this article that is understandable to as many people as possible. I spent the ages required to trawl through the page history. When the page was created, the editor wrote it around the Toyota Auris (which was later spun off into another article), using the terms sedan and station wagon (American English, Australian English and Canadian English) along with litre (Australian English, British English and Canadian English). In August 2019, you (Stepho-wrs) became understandably tired of the page flipping between litre and liter and added a "Use British English" tag at the top of the page. The consequence of this change was that the terms sedan and station wagon, which had been used since the page was created, a UK-based editor changed the terms that had been in use for years to saloon and estate. For some reason, after you made that change, editors also went back and retroactively started changing old Corolla models to also use British English "for the sake of consistency." Now, my argument is, based on the sheer number of English speakers out there, the "common" terms are sedan, station wagon and litre. Also, per WP:ENGVAR, we should continue to use the variety of English that was established in the article and there is no valid reason for changing from one acceptable option to another. Based on the history of this page we should use Canadian English or any other variety of English that allows for the use of sedan, station wagon and litre. --RickyCourtney (talk) 15:12, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Yep, we have a choice between an imperfect rule and anarchy. I too got a bit annoyed when sedan was changed to saloon. But if I disallow that change then I am destroying everything that WP:ENGVAR stands for and we're back to anarchy. We must always be careful of just following our personal preferences - see WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT. What looks more naturally to us will seem weird and outright wrong to others - such is life.

Pragmatically, for words that we think some readers will have trouble with (eg 'saloon' for American readers), we link the word towards the top of the article to an appropriate artcile (eg saloon). That particular reader may not be happy (and we can't make everybody happy all the time) but at least they will learn a new word and anarchy is avoided.

Not sure if I picked this up correctly or not but it looks like you are suggesting a pigeon English - ie, certain words from one dialect and other words from another (eg article can choose UK/US for spelling like litre-liter but always use "sedan"). That would be a matter that should be taken up at either WP:AUTOMOBILES or a MOS discussion.  Stepho  talk  23:54, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Not sure I agree that I am suggesting a pigeon English. "Use British English" was arbitrarily placed at the top of the page because the article used the word "litre" and not "liter," but the article was well established as using "sedan" and "station wagon" which are not British English. Therefore, it was a mistake to place the "Use British English" note on the page.

My suggestion is simple, per WP:ENGVAR, we should respect the variety of English that was established in the article, and there are other varieties that are more closely aligned. I suggested Canadian English because that is a variety that uses sedan, station wagon and litre. --RickyCourtney (talk) 01:00, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Since the model is both made and sold in the UK, Europe, Japan and the US (although at launch, when this article was created, assembly was in the UK and Japan only) there are clearly no national ties involved, and it is simply a matter of retaining the existing version. The article has been tagged as British English for years, and more recent edits have simply been about respecting the tagging and ensuring consistency. Starting an edit war by replacing one version of English with another, in the absence of established national ties, is specifically deprecated editing behaviour. Retrospectively (and unilaterally) deciding that the article is in Canadian English, when there are no obvious ties to Canada and the text has referred to petrol engines from the very first edit, is clearly ridiculous. MapReader (talk) 17:55, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Even though I'm Australian, I prefer to keep the varieties to just UK English or US English. Otherwise we wind up with UK, US, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, South African, Indian and probably many other varieties all competing and endless discussions to change. I don't see any compelling reason to change to another dialect.  Stepho  talk  22:07, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Your earlier post nailed it; way back, the Engvar of this article was settled, and it is now bad manners to be changing it simply because IDONTLIKEIT. Looking back at the history, a mix of terminology was used from the very beginning, and this confusion was ironed out when it was tagged, well before I got involved with editing this article. This may have reflected the fact that, from launch, the only English-speaking country that manufactured this model was the UK. The title of this discussion section and the OP miss the point that there isn’t any reason why this article shouldn’t be in British English, just as very many more articles are in American English simply because that’s the way they are. To avoid arguments such as this, and in the absence of one settled version of English for the whole of WP, ENGVAR lets things lie, and that is what we should do here. MapReader (talk) 05:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Toyota Corolla (E210) facelift

The Toyota Corolla (E210) facelift will be launched in other countries on 2023. Derwydd74 (talk) 12:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Taxi image

@Haysnawri10 According to the relevant guideline WP:CARPIX #6, Use images of cars in good, complete, clean, and original condition whenever possible. Avoid pictures of customized cars (e.g. incorrect wheels or other aftermarket components like bodykits or conversions for police or taxi applications) as they are not representative of the vehicle's factory specification. Given this guideline, can you explain the reason for your readdition of the taxi image? If not, I shall be inclined to undo your edit and remove the image once again. S5A-0043^Talk 01:04, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Comment: This guideline does not entail a blanket prohibition of pictures of cars with modifications of any sort.

If the picture is the only one available of a version which merits inclusion, then the taxi stickers are irrelevant. If there is another picture of the same version in standard trim, then that picture should be used. The question here is how many pictures we need of the myriad sub-versions of the E210 Corolla? Does the Hybrid Sedan look that different from the standard sedan that we need another photo? Are there no other Hybrid Sedan photos available? Thanks.  Mr.choppers | ✎  01:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

If there is another picture of the same version in standard trim, then that picture should be used: My opinion is that File:Toyota COROLLA HYBRID S 2WD (6AA-ZWE211-AEXEB) front.jpg and File:Toyota COROLLA HYBRID G-X 2WD (6AA-ZWE211-AEXNB).jpg are viable replacements for the Japanese spec and of acceptable quality. Furthermore, when Haysnawri10 re-added the image, they did not explain why they did so, hence the new topic on this talk page. S5A-0043^Talk 02:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

The reasons I put that picture:

1. It's the facelifted model (look at the front grille) and currently the best picture available.

2. I wasn't aware about the prohibition of the use of taxi image. Haysnawri10 (talk) 05:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Re point 2. S5A-0043 explicitly pointed to policy WP:CARPIX #6. If somebody reverts your changes and points out the policy then it makes sense to read that policy before reinstating your change.

Having said that, I'm not particularly against taxi images, as long as they demonstrate something better than other availble images. In this case, it's the facelift - but can other images show this?  Stepho  talk  06:11, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Didn't notice that the keyword is "facelift". Well, if it is the best picture available of the "facelifted" model, then I won't be opposed to the taxi picture staying there until there's a picture of the civilian version of the car. S5A-0043^Talk 07:10, 21 April 2024 (UTC)