Talk:Tyson Gay/GA1

GA Review

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Review 1

Amateur career

the hard practice paid dividends and he broke the Lafayette High School stadium record for the 200 meters.

Ref?

• Ladies' man ref.

Similarly, Gay was not a studious child and he failed to achieve the grades needed to enter a Division I sports college.

Try maybe at the beginning: "Gay was also not..."

• Fixed.

He also continued to outstrip the competition, winning the 100 m at the junior-college (JUCO) meeting

which meeting?

• 2002 meeting (from cited ref).

Gay decided to follow his tutor and he was keen to join the university's highly successful amateur track and field program which had dominated National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Indoor and Outdoor competitions for the previous ten years.

This is rather a run-on.

• Rephrased with semi-colon.

and the university environment gave the 22-year-old sprinter his first opportunity to compete in NCAA events and the Olympic Trials.

Ref?

• Removed Olympics and slight rephrases. Not sure what the Trials thing was doing there but the NCAA doesn't need cite (it's a college event).

In the indoor NCAA event in March...

Why not simply call it what it is? The NCAA Men's Indoor Track and Field Championship.

• I did that for purposes of brevity but I've expanded it now.

The outdoor event in June proved far more fruitful

See above.

• Done.

The results of the Olympic Trials confirmed his status as a rising contender in the 100 m and 200 m events.

For which Olympics? And a wikilink?

• 2004 Trials. No specific articles for Olympic Trials yet. I may seek to rectify this in the future but I'm currently unsure what form the article may take.

Professional career

Upon turning professional, Gay entered the USA Outdoor Championships, and he took silver in the 200 m with 20.06 s.

I think it would be better to say "...Championships, where he took..."

• Done.

He was selected for the 200 m at the 2005 World Championships in Athletics in Helsinki and finished fourth, beaten by three of his compatriots (Justin Gatlin, Wallace Spearmon and John Capel), completing the unprecedented feat of a single nation taking the top four positions at the championship event.

Rather long, somewhat of a run-on. Could be split up.

• Split in two.

His time of 19.96 s was his second fastest that year and fourth fastest of any sprinter.

"and fourth fastest of any sprinter" Does that mean all time or just that year?

• That year.

However, when interviewed he was restrained and did not revel in victory, anticipating further challenges against Gatlin in the following season

Is this really relevant?

• This paints the image of Gay as a modest sprinter who does not overly celebrate his victories (in contrast to his contemporaries). This thread runs throughout the piece but I'll remove if you think it's irrelevant. What do you think?

It was not only his rival sprinters that would cause future difficulties however: Gay's coach Lance Brauman was indicted for mail fraud, embezzlement and theft relating to his time at Barton College and Arkansas University. Brauman had falsified various accounts, paying athletes for jobs they had not done and giving credits for courses they had not passed.

Could this be shortened into one sentence? I don't think all his criminal activities are necessary to know.

• They all relate to Gay as he was a "beneficiary" of Brauman's illegal activities (the specific examples relate to Gay). How do you suggest I condense this?
  • Maybe instead of listing all his misdemeanors, you should try to sum up what he did in one phrase: "illegally helping athletes through school", "giving advantages to athletes", or something. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 13:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Rephrased and focused. Sillyfolkboy (talk)

Imprisoned for 10 months, Brauman gave a notebook with coaching instructions to Gay and his fellow trainees, Wallace Spearmon and Veronica Campbell.

How is this relevant?

• Rephrased to show relevancy - removed references to other athletes.

Gay became the 2006 US Outdoor Champion in unfortunate circumstances: originally finishing second in 10.07 s with a strong headwind, winner Justin Gatlin was later disqualified for steroid abuse.

Try: "in unfortunate circumstances; Gay originally finished second in 10.07 s with a strong headwind, but winner Justin Gatlin was later disqualified for steroid abuse.."

• Done.

Improvements in the 100 m followed, winning the Rethymno track meet and setting another personal best with 9.88 s.

Try "as he won the Rethymno..."

• Done.

Gay scored another sub-10 second 100 m at the Stockholm Grand Prix, finishing second to Asafa Powell with a 9.97 s,[33] and beat Michael Johnson's British all-comers 200 m record with a 19.84 s win in London.

For consistency, "beat" -> "beating".

• Done.

Gay continued to improve at the 100 m, revising his personal best to 9.84 s at the Zürich Golden League meet, yet this was not enough to beat Asafa Powell, who equaled his own world record of 9.77 s.

Try: "...meet, but it was not...."

• Done.

Gay was pleased that Fredericks was on site to see his best equaled: "To run that time in front of Frankie is a privilege. He's someone I admire a great deal both as an athlete and as a man."

Relevant?

• I added this for a bit of colour between the numbers and medals—I've previously received complaints that my writing style was a bit dry and have sought to correct this with more reflection and discussion. Do you think this is too much though?
  • You can keep it I guess. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 13:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Having proven himself to be adept at both 100 and 200 m, Gay reflected upon his development as a sprinter:

I think you can do without the blockquote that follows. Try to take only 1 or 2 sentences from it, and incorporate it into the text.

• I've condensed the quote a little. Is this enough or do you still think it should be fully incorporated into the text?
  • Ah, I guess you can keep it that way. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 13:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

The US National Championships proved that Gay did not need favorable conditions to perform well.

POV and WP:OR.

• Removed and rephrased.

Gay's reaction was a far call from those of previous American champions

Again, rather POV. Also, "a far call" is rather informal.

• Removed.

Gay's focus on the 100 m race did not distract him from the 200 m event.

OR?

• Rephrased with non-OR alternative

The Jamaicans set a national record but this was not enough to the United States team who finished in a world-leading 37.78 s, winning gold medals for Darvis Patton, Spearmon, Gay and Leroy Dixon.

Try: "The Jamaicans set a national record, but it was not enough to beat the United States team, who finished in a world-leading time of 37.78 s.

• Done.

Although Gay had been bullish in victory on the track, the achievement did not change him—he remained humble and appreciative to his rivals. In November he was chosen as the IAAF Male World Athlete of the Year for 2007 and in his acceptance speech he paid tribute to his peers, encouraging Powell to remain focused and saying that he highly regarded the Jamaican.

Again, OR. Not a single ref.

• The supporting ref for all of this is the following ref - #59[1]. It is just quite separated from the rest of the text.

Having failed to reach the finals of the 100 m sprint or relay, he reflected upon his failure to make the podium in Beijing:

Again, I don't think you need to use a blockquote.

• Fixed into text.

Gay rounded off the season in Europe, winning in the 200 m at Gateshead, but he had to withdraw from a ÅF Golden League race against Bolt and Powell; his hamstring was still causing him problems.

Try: "...but he had to withdraw from an ÅF Golden League race against Bolt and Powell after he re-injured his hamstring."

Personal life

Gay has a strong sense of family: he has a daughter with Shoshana Boyd, Trinity, who was born around 2001,[7][6] and enjoys taking care of both his own daughter and his niece Destin.

"Gay has a strong sense of family". Very OR

• Removed.

While Lance Brauman was in prison for fraud, he looked after the coach's wife and daughter."

Who is "he" referring to?

• Fixed - Gay.

Faith is very important to Gay...His beliefs matter to him both on and off the track:

More OR.

• Partial rephrase. However, I would say that the fact that he is a regular Church-goer and that he says "I really believe in my God-given ability," backs up the idea that "His beliefs matter to him both on and off the track:". Is there a better way to rephrase this?

General

What makes you think you can simply shorten "seconds" to "s"? I'm pretty sure the MOS doesn't say anthing about that.

• I was advised to do this during Usain Bolt's GA (or Dwain Chambers...I don't remember) as a way of reducing repetition. The MOS discusses abbreviation here. Seconds are not mentioned directly but the standard m/s is stated, clearly indicating that "s" can be its abbreviated form.
  • In which case, why is it done so inconsistently? Everything should be either converted to m/s or meters/seconds (unless full expansion on first mention). Noble Story (talk • contributions) 11:40, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
    • m/s is for measuring velocity not time. I merely used it as an example and its not especially relevant except for the wind measurements. Most of the time I see that people wikilink m/s on its first usage instead of expanding it (I think "metres/seconds" is non-standard usage). I have abbreviated metres to "m", and seconds to "s", except in cases where it is used as part of the prose (e.g. He ran a time of 8.64 s. but He beat his opponent by two seconds). Could you give more specific examples of where you think there are inconsistencies? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 11:55, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
      • Actually, when I said m/s, I didn't mean the actual measure "meters per second" but m AND s. But anyway...What I believe is inconsistent use:
        • "...setting a new championship record of 10.60 seconds."
        • "Gay finished fourth in the 60 meters"
        • "school record of 6.55 s in the 60 meters at the 2005 Championship Series" Noble Story (talk • contributions) 12:59, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
          • Fixed.

Also, when you refer to a person by their full name the first time, you don't need to do it again (i.e. refer to them by their last name afterwards).

• I'll look to reduce any repeated names now. I'm leaving repetition in the "Achievements" section for clarity.

Noble Story (talk • contributions) 07:23, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Fixed most of your suggestions. There are still some issues to discuss. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 00:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Review 2

By his senior year he was a more composed athlete...'

There's not really anything previous to this to explain why this happened to be.

• What about this preceding it? : "Gay began working on his technique and rhythm"

However, when interviewed he was restrained and did not revel in victory, anticipating further challenges against Gatlin in the following season.

This needs a ref, the closest one after say nothing about this. And to support this, the ref would need to specifically mention his attitude.

• Slight rephrase, I've added the ref I missed out. I was sure I'd put that in at the time... Sillyfolkboy (talk)
  • It's still OR, because the ref doesn't say anything about being "restrained" or "anticipating further challenges". Noble Story (talk • contributions) 11:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
    • This was my interpretation of "I’m looking forward to meeting up with him again next year. We’ll see what happens." and "Gay said, speaking in a low-key, almost modest tone." Either way, obviously I'm straying to far from the source so I've completely changed the sentence to be closer to the original. Should be much better now.diff Sillyfolkboy (talk)

None of the athletes were charged with any wrongdoing.

Which athletes?

• I think that my previous rephrase might've solved this issue. Tell me if it's still a little disjointed. Sillyfolkboy (talk)

Although he was imprisoned for 10 months, Brauman continued to train Gay, periodically updating him coaching routines.

"him coaching routines"?

• Fixed. Sillyfolkboy (talk)

Following his coach's release from prison, Gay set out preparing for the Beijing Olympics,

Which coach?

• Added in Brauman. Sillyfolkboy (talk)

Gay's mother married Tim Lowe in 1995 and he now has two half-siblings, Seth and Haleigh Lowe.

"he" has no clear antecedent.

• Rephrased to avoid ambiguity. Sillyfolkboy (talk)

And a couple more general questions:

• Why is Tyson Gay bolded in CR (current ref) 5?
• I think it would be worthwhile to stick a sentence in somewhere, maybe in the lead, that he has not tested positive for drugs, since that seems such a big thing nowadays. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 13:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Bolding removed. I'll add the Project Believe thing into the lead as this helps to focus on drugs testing rather than implying that he is using drugs. Good call on this one by the way, as Gay's stiff-looking running technique often brings questions of drug use. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 21:08, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Also, instead of just having that one sentence that talks about drugs, maybe you could do a summary of the last two sections (with that sentence included). Noble Story (talk • contributions) 11:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I've reorganised things to bring that information together. Otherwise, there's not much more to talk about lead wise, as is expected of someone who has suffered an injury and is barely halfway into their professional career. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 15:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Gay took the gold medal but he stated that the quality of the competition and memories of Helsinki had made him nervous beforehand. OK, just a little more: Saying "Gay took the gold medal" is basically repeating that he won, which is redundant. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 04:49, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Is this better?[2] I think there is still ever so slight repetition but I believe that winning the gold and beating certain opponents both deserve a mention. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 14:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

OK then, looks good. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 14:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)